From the Mormon hatemail bag…

I know you have all missed these. We have our new friend Glen to thank for this little gem.

Glen’s comment is below my response, in its entirety.

Dear Glen,

Thanks for coming to visit my blog, but I must note that you obviously are lacking in simple human relationship skills. For example, you do not do your research, and read the blog to see what it is really about. You comment on a very old post, and instead of offering insight, you give us the simplistic and moronic kneejerk reaction of attacking the person WRITING the post, even when you cannot possibly know anything about this person. For example, you said of me:

I regret the author’s personal problems and distance from the church, but would like to affirm “white” or “pure” the physics spectrum of all colors (white) and no color (black) is science, not theology.

I also regret your lack of stature and, uh, obvious problem in the manhood area. Feel offended? You should. How does it feel? Because this is what you just did to me. It’s common, stupid, and makes absolutely no sense. Why do you not address the posts, instead of immediately attacking me with a comment on my obvious “personal problems?” You don’t know me from Adam. You just WANT me to have personal problems because then you will feel validated.

I do not claim to NOT have personal programs. I’m pretty damn sure you have some as well, because if there is one thing I have learned in this life it is that no one gets through it unscathed.

When one cannot defend the reasoning behind a choice or policy or church tenet, then they resort to personal attacks. I have seen it many times, and you are no different. ADDRESS the issue. And don’t spout your silly crap.

If you have a book that is THE MOST CORRECT BOOK ON EARTH, then it does not change to “communicate better.” It was already THE MOST CORRECT. How do you make something MORE correct than THE MOST correct? You can’t.

Joseph Smith said:

I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.

So when you change it, why is this necessary? And since Spencer W. Kimball said QUITE SPECIFICALLY that the children from Native American homes were WHITER than their brothers and sisters who stayed on the reservation, you also cannot claim the word has been changed and ALWAYS meant pure. It did not.

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today as against that of only fifteen years ago. Truly the scales of darkness are falling from their eyes, and they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people….

The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos;…The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.
At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl…was several shades lighter than her parents…There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

The day of the Lamanites has come….today the dark clouds are dissipating.” (Spencer W. Kimball, Improvement Era, December 1960. pages 922-23)

This quote makes it ENTIRELY clear just exactly what “white” was meant to signify in the Book of Mormon. Mormon Prophet Spencer W. Kimball specifically cited the SKIN COLOR of the Native children who were being raised in Mormon homes. There was even a joke that the missionaries donated blood so the “Lamanites” would get WHITER faster. Please, by all means, explain that one away. You can’t.

Other points:

1. The Church courts are NOT courts of love. They are courts of men making decisions about people lives, and most of the time they are not even remotely qualified to do so. NO TRAINING. Many, many mistakes are made. Would these men not benefit from some training in dealing with spousal abuse, child abuse and sexual molestation, gambling addiction, drug and alcohol addiction, and more? I feel for bishops, as they try to navigate a very difficult job with nothing but a wing and prayer. Why not give them the tools they need? This is where “no paid clergy” works in a negative manner.

2. I would suspect from your comments that you know absolutely nothing about George P. Lee, or his “eternal” state. He was nothing more than a token to the LDS hierarchy. And when he fell, he fell hard. Where are the Native American apostles now? Where are the African-American leaders? Why is there nothing but OLD WHITE MEN leading this church? How do you walk away from racism and pretend you don’t see it? If someone robs a bank, and you drive the getaway car, you are GUILTY of a crime. If you see injustice, and turn away from it and try to justify it, you are just as guilty as those committing the injustice.

3. The stupidest thing you say is that I am editing history. Uh, yeah? Not even close. The LDS Church official biography of Brigham Young writes only of one wife. Anyone with a quarter of a brain knows this is a complete and utter fabrication. They have always excommunicated and disciplined people who have dared to write the TRUTH about the early, violent beginnings of the LDS Church. There are three different versions of the “First Vision.” Only one is on the Website, and the others are NEVER addressed. Missionaries are taught to give the “milk before the meat,” because there is lots in Mormon history that is VERY hard to swallow.

4. The LDS Church is a patriarchal white boys club. You show me ONE LEADER at the very top who is not rich, white, and fairly old. Just one. (And I don’t suggest you use the age one. That would just be dumb.)

So, Glen, I must surmise that you must be dizzy a lot. Stop trying to make it about me, and address the issue. When you have a real, valid argument, and not a personal attack and attempt to use the “look at you” method of drawing attention away from your church’s inadequacies, please, be all means, state it here.

In the meantime I would like to say that some of the most amazing and wonderful people I know are Mormon. This is not about the people. I greatly admire the “service” ethic of the church, and how they are teaching their young people to care for those less fortunate. I admire people with a genuine desire to live their lives in the most positive and upbeat and ethical way possible, and use the tenets of the LDS Church to do so.

I do NOT respect people who cannot be honest, and you have not shown one iota of honesty. Care to fix that? I don’t care if you have personal problems. Let’s have a conversation about the facts, shall we?

Below is Glen’s complete comment, unedited and in it’s full glory.

I regret the author’s personal problems and distance from the church, but would like to affirm “white” or “pure” the physics spectrum of all colors (white) and no color (black) is science, not theology. ” Pure” is an improvement in communication because that is what the term meant when written and does now. A very silly pick at a corpse of long ago. If exercising editing license and changing past versions then read through the case law libraries and see just how many decisions have been truly “doctored” not made “pure”.

The church doesn’t publish private information about members nor haul them before the people to disgrace them. I will not here. The church courts/discipline counsels are conducted with the deepest respect for a troubled member to help be better and get through their problems. They are councils of love. Some require excommunication for the member to repent, some dis-fellowship and some nothing but a commitment never to do it again.

I am confident that Elder Lee repented, that he is in a better place and we should all look for something better to do than use his corpse to pick at, further anger and animosity about a group of people either they so badly want to join or rejoin or truly lost all sense of decency to “kick against the pricks and fight against God”.

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About Natalie R. Collins

Natalie has more than 30 years writing, editing, proofreading and design experience. She has written 20 books (and counting), has worked for the Sundance Film Festival, and as an investigative journalist, editor, and proofreader. She embraces her gypsy-heart and is following her new free-thinking journey through life. Follow her as she starts over and learns a bunch of life's lessons--some the hard way.
This entry was posted in Everybody wants to be us, Pushing buttons, The most perfect book! No, NOW it's perfect! Well maybe now...., Things she said.... and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

2 Responses to From the Mormon hatemail bag…

  1. S. Puls says:

    Love love love the rebuttle… Way to go Natalie

    Like

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