I tried to address Todd in a comment, and realized that this is someone everyone should read and see. He is single-handedly destroying any good impression ANYONE might have had about Mormonism. He and Boyd K. Packer should go have a Coke, er, Sprite together. They have lots in common. I have NOT removed ONE WORD of his answer. Nor have I taken it out of context.
First of all, let me tell you that you have made a complete and utter jackass of yourself on this blog. I’m not trying to be rude, but honest. Do you not realize what damage you are doing to your church by your convoluted and arrogant arguments? I’ve received private emails from readers–most who have never been Mormon–who have said “Wow, this guy is crazy. Even if I were thinking about joining the Mormon Church, everything I’ve heard from him would lead me to never even consider it.”
In short, you have driven people away from Mormonism, the very thing which will get you in the most trouble with your religion. Think it doesn’t happen? Think again.
You are neither logical or consistent. You spin constantly. You don’t answer questions. You insult, and then sign your posts “with love.” Very typical of narcissistic or borderline personality disorder. The more logic we throw at you, the more irrational you become. It’s….odd. I don’t remember you being mentally unstable in high school, but it’s obvious I knew very little about you.
And now, I will do something you NEVER do. I will address your points. But before I do, I must reiterate the damage you are doing to the LDS Church, the very thing you think you are defending. You are coming off as completely crazy. Nothing drives normal people away faster than a fanatic, and it’s obvious you are extremely fanatical.
1. If we don’t follow ALL THINGS written in the Bible, why do we follow this interpretation of sexuality? I gave you SPECIFIC examples. Please address them.
You did not. Instead, you said:
Your attempts to frame the debate around Old Testament laws won’t work. I’m not bound to believe or adhere to ANYTHING in the bible. How the ancient Israelites chose to govern themselves is irrelevant.
Um, have you started your own branch of the Mormon Church? The Church of Todd? Because I’m telling ya, you have got it wrong. From your OWN CHURCH’S Web site:
Do Mormons believe in the Bible?
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly called “Mormons”) revere the Bible as the word of God and use it regularly. Mormons use the Bible for personal study and teach from it during Sunday worship services.
Like all Christians, Mormons consider the Bible to be a sacred record that includes Heavenly Father’s dealings with ancient people who lived in the eastern hemisphere. It speaks of covenants He made with His children through prophets like Noah, Moses, and Abraham and recounts the events surrounding the ministry of His Son, Jesus Christ, as witnessed by the Apostles and others.
So actually, as you will see above, YOU ARE BOUND by the Bible. Your church believes it to be the WORD OF GOD. It does not say
only the NEW Testament is the Word of God. In FACT, that page specifically mentions BOTH the Old AND New Testament.
How can the Bible help me and my family?
The Bible helps us know right from wrong. It testifies of Jesus Christ and teaches us how following Him can bless our lives. Studying the Bible—whether alone or with our families—brings peace and happiness to our homes as we follow the counsel recorded by ancient prophets.
The Church has developed free resources and study aids that can help you and your family learn and understand the truths contained in the Bible. Below are links to these resources.
Nowhere does it say that any Mormon is not bound by it. It says it is THE WORD OF GOD. I also missed the part where it said, “Everybody is bound by it but Todd.” The Church of Todd may not be bound by the Bible, but the official LDS Church. Yes. As far as it is “interpreted correctly.”
So what attempt is it I have made, short of stating truth, and quoting your own Church’s Web site WORD FOR WORD with no changes? No attempt at all to “take it out of context.” I am trying to get your answers as to why you only believe certain things in the Bible (which you irreverently put as lowercase, which would offend any Christian and those of us who live on getting our grammar fix daily) ? I stand behind my statement. The LDS Church believes the Bible to be the word of God. Please answer my questions accordingly.
You quoted me:
2. I do not HATE Mormonism. I have made that patently clear. I don’t like some of the doctrine, and specifically the doctrine that discriminates. Please address the changing of the Book of Mormon to say “pure and delightsome” to say “white and delightsome.” Tell me, why was the most perfect book on earth changed so many times? Remember, Joseph Smith himself said it was “perfect.”
This is nothing more than you regurgitating more tired, old, anti-Mormon rhetoric to try and score “gotcha” points. How are changes in the Book of Mormon relevant to this topic? I’m dumbfounded that you are even serious. Totally lame.
How are changes in the Book of Mormon relevant to this topic? Joseph Smith said it was the “most perfect book on earth.” So why has it been changed? If Joseph Smith is a prophet, and the book was perfect then, WHY CHANGE IT? As always, you do not address my questions directly, but attempt to insult me. Lame? Dumbfounded? You are right. You are dumbfounded, but it ain’t me whose doing the “dumbing down.” Insulting me does not take away from the fact that you have once again skirted around the ISSUE.
You say you don’t believe in homosexuality because the BIBLE says it is a sin. In the Old Testament. Which you have JUST TOLD ME YOU DON’T HAVE TO ADHERE TO. So where is your basis to condemn homosexuality? Once again, you did NOT ANSWER the question. I know why, and you know why, and so does everyone reading. It’s because YOU CAN’T. You have to call me names and insult me, to try to divert attention away from the fact you just plain don’t know. You can’t defend it. So it’s easier to be nasty and ugly.
You quoted me:
3. Are you unable to see that there is a revolution going on here? I really just want to know. Because you need to prepare yourself. This is akin to the civil rights issues of the 60s and 70s. It will take longer to get there, but it will happen.
Thanks for watching out for me. The significance of this issue on society completely escaped me.
Once again, you have backed yourself into a corner. If there is no significance of this issue on society, then WHY DO YOU CARE? Why are you fighting against it? If it HAS no significance, why is the LDS Church spending MILLIONS of dollars to keep it from happening? Why do you keep coming back here and making a fool of yourself? I doubt Thomas S. Monson considers it insignificant. We both KNOW Boyd K. Packer does not consider it insignificant, or he wouldn’t have so callously offended those with same-sex attraction just days after three different suicides caused by gay bullying.
You quoted me:
4. Please explain to me how a brother marrying a sister is the same as a non-related man marrying another man. The law behind brothers and sisters marrying has more to do with the genetic problems than anything else. How does this have any relevance at all?
Let me restate the relevance of this point.Your logic is that marriage is a fundamental right protected by the 14th amendment’s equal protection clause. People should be able to choose who they want to marry. Right? Please, tell me if that isn’t your logic.
Why would you limit marriage to unrelated individuals only? And why frame the argument around brother-sister marriages? Can’t two brothers or two sisters have just as meaningful a relationship as two unrelated men or women? Why is unrelated SSM okay, and related SSM not okay? It is directly relevant, because your own logic makes it relevant. You refuse to acknowledge ANY moral standard upon which to elevate marriage.
Have you ever heard of separation of Church and state? It comes from the very same constitution you are quoting. In short, you don’t GET to pick the morality for others. Mormons are NOT the majority. In fact, they are quite distinctly the minority in the world.
Can two brothers and or two sisters have just as meaningful a relationship as a same-sex couple? No. Incest is driven by a very different animal than homosexuality, as is pedophilia. Likewise, most pedophiles are NOT homosexuals. You are not a psychologist, and you have no training in this, and you refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE any scientific studies. But you just keep spouting your mouth. You need to shut up, because you, quite frankly have nothing to reference your statements with, and refuse to supply it, but continue to get uglier and uglier.
You are trying to lump the two together, so you make sure that everybody knows just how perverted you consider homosexuality to be. But it doesn’t matter. You can’t back it up. You have no actual facts to base your statements on.
You quoted me:
5. How do I “hate” Mormons. Please give specific examples of my hate. Because disliking a doctrine does not amount to hate or bigotry.
I’ll take you at your word that you don’t hate Mormons.
However, your hateful, bigoted rhetoric and baseless assertions about Mormons, Mormonism, and religion in general lead me to question your characterization that you merely “dislike” a few of the doctrines. I’ll let the inquisitive read through your seven years of blogging to decide for themselves how you really feel.
What’s going to happen here, Todd, is that people will read this blog and see you can’t defend one thing you are fighting for. As always, you have not given me ONE example of being hateful or of me offering up bigoted rhetoric. Just because you SAY I have, doesn’t mean I have. At this point, people are reading your comments for the sheer comedy of it.
You quoted me:
6. I’m going to be perfectly honest here. Why don’t you try it. I do NOT support polygamy as it is practiced by perverts like Tom Green, Warren Jeffs, et al., who are destroying the lives of children. As far as what consenting adults do, that is their business.
Wow. Brave admission, and totally inconsistent with your previous rhetoric. What if the spouses of perverts like Tom Green and Warren Jeffs consent? Why don’t you support marriage between the closely-related, provided they both consent? If it can be shown that same-sex marriages harm children, would you be against it?
Really? What rhetoric? And hardly brave. And 12 and 13-year-old girls are NOT old enough to consent. You have daughters. What you have just written is abhorrent. That you would willingly put them into such a fate if your church were to say, once again, that polygamy was going to be practiced is sickening. Would you let your 13-year-old daughter be married off to a 45-year-old man with six other wives, Todd? Would you push her into his arms, even as she sobbed and begged and pleaded with you not to make her do it? Would you whip her and beat her if she ran away, as Krista Nelson did? She didn’t want to marry her uncle in the Kingston clan. Her father tracked her down and beat her severely. THIS is the polygamy you are talking about. You would do that to your daughter?
If it were proven that same-sex marriages harmed children, then yes, I would probably be against it. But it doesn’t, hasn’t, and won’t. Now, would a dysfunctional same sex marriage be harmful to a child? Of course. Just like a dysfunctional heterosexual family is harmful to a child. Look at the statistics, Todd. Heterosexuals regularly beat, abuse, and mentally screw up their children. Dysfunctional is dysfunctional.
You quoted me:
a. Why do you agree with polygamy and not gay marriage? And if you don’t agree with polygamy, why are you claiming to be a believing Mormon?
Polygamy doesn’t vitiate marriage.
Using big words doesn’t confuse me, Todd. From Merriam Webster:
Definition of VITIATE1: to make faulty or defective : impair vitiated by obvious haste — William Styron>2: to debase in moral or aesthetic status vitiated by prejudice>3: to make ineffective vitiates a contract>
7. And my last question is this. WHAT impact would gay marriage have on YOU.
Deplorable types of relationships like domestic violence? Incest by heterosexual fathers? Marrying off of young children to old men? Oh wait. That’s polygamy as practiced by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and today’s current day perverts. Kindest regards my ass. There are no severe ramifications. You have no kind intent, and there is no love in your heart. You just want to prove your superiority over others. What you don’t seem to realize is that you are not superior.And as in the past, your statements on this blog are going to haunt the LDS Church, just like statements like this one did:
“I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it.”–Mark E. Peterson
Or this one:
(1848 – 1877) BRIGHAM YOUNG 2nd Prophet and President
“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, sad, low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”
This will always be so? Yeah. We all saw how that turned out….