So, Todd W., a devout and rather arrogant Mormon, thinks that Todd D., a gay ex- or non-believing Mormon, should honor Todd W’s beliefs, and not his own.
Says Todd W.:
I gather from your comment that you believe it’s okay for you to take your beliefs and enshrine them into law; but it’s not okay for me and others, who believe that redefining marriage is a bad idea, to do the same?
Now that’s irrational, as is your childish “you won’t let me have my way, therefore you don’t love me” logic.
Marriage is not an inalienable right. It’s a right granted when individuals meet certain conditions. Conditions that are defined by the people, for the people. Our laws are filled with these conditional rights (driving, drinking, running for elective office, etc.).
These marriage laws don’t make those attracted to the same sex lesser, any more than the driving laws make blind people lesser. Those who choose to be blind deserve the restrictions placed on them. Those who don’t choose to be blind might not deserve the restrictions, but they’re required to abide by them anyway because most people agree it’s best for society as a whole.
I certainly respect your right to express your views and do your best to influence those partial to your cause. I expect the same in return.
With all my love,
He is responding to this message from Todd D.
Personally, I don’t care what the Mormon or any other church believes about homosexuality or gay people. They are free to believe that god hates it and gay people will not attain the celestial kingdom or heaven or wherever they believe they will go when they die.
I do care when they try to take their beliefs and enshrine them into law and ensure I have second class status in society. As we see, people can and have taken their religious beliefs and created laws around them (Prop , but reality shows that these laws discriminate unfairly and are not based on rational reasons. So while fortunately these will be struck down and repealed by the courts and more just legislators, it will unfortunately take a long time.
And no, you do not love your gay friends when you work to teach they are lesser than you because apparently you believe they “chose” to be gay. It isn’t changeable like religion or your wall color. You treat them differently so it isn’t love, it is barely tolerance…
TW defines TD’s desire to marry, have a valid relationship with a partner, possibly have a family, make life decisions, and do ALL of the things that TW gets to do, as a conditional right NOT given to gay people. Man and woman only. Of course, the Mormons believed for years in man and WOMEN only, and still do, although they believe polygamy is a tenet that will only be practiced in the Celestial Kingdom. That, apparently, is not a problem for TW. As long as HIS rights are intact, he’s just fine. Why should someone else get the same rights as him? He’s special. I’m not sure why, but he’s telling you that marriage is a “conditional” and not an inalienable right.
So as long as it’s one man, and forty women, it’s cool, but if it’s one man and one man, somebody better get the hanging noose. (Yes, that IS sarcasm, and I realize that the Mormons and other religions are NOT going to hang gay people. So get your panties out of a wad.)
Well, TW, guess what? Did you know it used to be legal to make African Americans go to the back of the bus? Did you know it was ALSO legal to have segregated schools, so the white kids didn’t have to go to school with the black kids? Did you KNOW it used to legal to keep African Americans as SLAVES? Of course you do.
And until 1978, African Americans could not hold the LDS priesthood. Of course, after a lot of controversy, and more than one school refusing to play football against BYU because of the Church’s discriminatory stance, VOILA. There was a prophecy, and now African Americans can have every right the white Mormons do.
Of course, there is still not an apostle (of color), and the Native American who WAS an apostle was excommunicated from the church. Basically, the stance was changed to placate people. Just like the “manifesto” that ended polygamy in this life, but not after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Polygamy WAS never officially ended. It simply was “discontinued,” and until the 1940s, polygamous families were NOT excommunicated and were allowed to continue living polygamy.
Bigotry, hatred, and prejudice. All shown in the above paragraph. And yet, I know many Mormons, and I do NOT believe they feel hate. I think they are good people who don’t really understand why “the rules” are the way they are, but they believe in following their prophets, and so they do, even if they are slightly uncomfortable with “the rules.”
The stance to not allow homosexual marriage by Christians is based on the Bible. One of the most interesting quotes in the Bible, to me, is this one:
“Test all things and hold fast to that which is good.”– 1 Thessalonians 5:21
Who defines good? Everything in the Bible? Because if you follow the Bible, you BETTER get busy.
The Bible also states these little goodies:
- DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
- DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else’s husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
- MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
- LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
- MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
- DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
So, why do we not follow THESE scriptures, TW? Why are you clinging to the ones that your church tells you to cling to, and not taking them ALL as literally as you are the one about homosexuality?
If you take the Bible literally, then you had best stop having sex with your wife, which I’m quite sure you still do even though there are probably not more babies in your future, because SEX is only for procreation, correct?
Please don’t sign your posts with the word “Love,” because love does not discriminate and you do not love these people. You think YOU are entitled to rights they are not. Because God said so. Of course, he also said that if you should die your wife should have intercourse with your brothers in order to bear a male heir. Are you okay with that?