ACCOUNTABILITY, redux….

When I was a little girl, I was dunked under the Mormon waters and told that from that point on (and I was eight), I was COMPLETELY accountable to God for everything I did.

EVERYTHING. I lived in fear of that for quite a few years, because I was not exactly an angelic child. I’m sure you might find that hard to believe, but true it is. Anybody who was EVER baptized a Mormon knows they were told the same thing. All your “sins” are washed away, and from that point forward, you are ACCOUNTABLE.

So who is holding Joseph Smith accountable for having sex with a 14-year-old girl? (Helen Mar Kimball. Look it up. If you want someone to use irrational logic and magic powers to wash it away, call Todd.) We are trying Brian David Mitchell in a court of law, and have kept him locked up for years while we are doing it. He and Old Joe BOTH committed their crimes using religion as an excuse. Where do you THINK Brian David Mitchell got the idea? Dateline? Hmmm, that’s possible, so scratch that.

My point here is NOT that BDM is not guilty of a crime. He is. So are the pedophiles of the FLDS community who are marrying children EVERY DAY. But it all started with Joseph.

The FLDS Church is living the gospel the way Joseph Smith taught it.

Thank God today’s Mormons are not. But it’s time to put away the Joseph Smith statues, folks. He was nothing but a very flawed man who came up with an interesting idea. His group remained small and probably would have mostly died away, except that because of his death and the persecution of the Mormons, they were forced to flee.

And they came to Utah, with Brigham Young, where he was basically a king and did whatever the hell he wanted. And because there really was NO ONE HERE but Mormons, they flourished and grew, and everyone stayed Mormon because it did NOT PAY to piss King Brigham off.

I’m bothered that no one EVER wants to hold Brigham Young accountable for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I understand how it happened, folks. Anyone who reads or studies the time understands the mindset of the Mormons. But, much like slavery, it really wasn’t all that great of an idea. Excuse me, but did you REALLY think that one through?

WHAT is the meter used to determine which “prophecies” and statements are divine, and which are just the prophet being a man? Who decides that, Todd? Or anyone else who cares to answer? I can tell you what the meter is. If it has been discarded or misproven, IT IS THE MAN. If they are still doing it, divine.

Too bad they don’t have one of those golden egg contraptions from the Willy Wonka movie. You know, one that would say, “BAD PROPHECY, BAD PROPHECY, DOWN THE TUBES.”

That would have kept all the lovely little gems like “sometimes the truth is not very useful” from escaping the mouths of the Mormon prophets.

Sometimes the truth is not very useful. So lie about it instead. Produce a manual for official instruction that ONLY mentions the OFFICIAL wife of Brigham Young, and not one of the others. Odd. Lie about the Adam-God Doctrine. It’s one of those man things. You know….

Lie about it. But guess what? Your lies are shining through. Time to stop.

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About Natalie R. Collins

Natalie has more than 30 years writing, editing, proofreading and design experience. She has written 20 books (and counting), has worked for the Sundance Film Festival, and as an investigative journalist, editor, and proofreader. She embraces her gypsy-heart and is following her new free-thinking journey through life. Follow her as she starts over and learns a bunch of life's lessons--some the hard way.
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24 Responses to ACCOUNTABILITY, redux….

  1. Clark says:

    If the Mormons never moved to Utah, they’d still be a small, quiet group of weirdos, and more of us would have had normal childhoods.

    Like

  2. Natalie says:

    Clark, you are right.

    Like

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  4. WendyP. says:

    Fiery Natalie is back! I like fiery Natalie. ;-D

    Like

  5. Seth R. says:

    Presentism.

    Look it up.

    Like

  6. Rick says:

    Seth R,,

    Got it. And your point is? It was okay to take your 14 year old housecleaner back to the barn and have your way with her in the name of God? I doubt any culture would view that as okay…”presentism” notwithstanding?

    ~Rick

    Like

  7. Cele says:

    Well it’s about time, Natalie.

    Like

  8. Kirk says:

    And lie to your wife and friends about it? God’s plan?

    Rock on Natalie!

    Like

  9. Rick says:

    Kirk…exactly!

    Somehow adultery, lying, murder (remember Laban?), malicious destruction of property (Nauvoo Expositor printing press), etc… are all okay as long as you claim God told you to do it?!

    Talk about cognitive dissonance!

    ~Rick

    Like

  10. Kelly says:

    Hi All,

    Accountability seems like a pretty straight forward thing.
    The restored gospel of Christ. God’s chosen people. Doctrines
    and teachings restored to us by our Father in Heaven. I don’t
    see anything like “except” or “unless” following those statements.
    Pretty straight forward statements as far as I can see.

    So I really strikes me as strange when Todd and other LDS members
    make statements like this.

    Brother Todd says,

    Yes, our doctrines and beliefs come from our Father in Heaven through our living Prophet (and other inspired men and women). Does that mean that EVERY doctrine and belief comes through a face-to-face conversation with God to a prophet and is absolutely pure and perfect in every way? It does not. Nor does it mean that EVERY doctrine and belief in it’s current form is pure and perfect in every way.

    That statement screams of total lack of accountability. We have the
    restored Gospel of Christ that God gave only to us. EXCEPT that our
    Father in Heaven made them sorta pure and sorta perfect. So that gives
    us the right to change any of them to fit what we think is correct.

    Which begs the question, ” Why doesn’t God trust his chosen church
    and it’s people with the real TRUTH instead of the sorta truth?”

    Kelly

    Like

  11. Mike says:

    Howdy group! If any of you watched the LDS general conference this past weekend, you’ll almost certainly remember Jeffrey Holland’s passionate talk about the Book of Mormon. Couldn’t help but reflect on a talk given by an Islamic professor at a Harvard seminar almost three years ago. The speaker was crying and thumping his hand on the desk, proclaiming the validity and spirituality of the Koran; angrily shouting at the audience, almost defying anyone to disprove the historical accuracy and divine origin of the Koran.

    There was so much misinformation, grandstanding and emotional input intermixed with Holland’s talk, and I almost felt sorry for him. In one of my favorite parts, he said that those members, who choose to leave the church, must “CRAWL” around or through the Book of Mormon. Great image – the only way to leave the church is to crawl. Nope, we don’t make intelligent, well researched and informed decisions. We crawl.

    I encourage a listen to this talk if anyone has access.

    Mike

    Like

  12. Rick says:

    I saw it, and was quite interested in his demeanor. He was more than passionate — he was angry! Psychologically speaking, his anger was based in some fear…who knows from what?!

    Most GAs are stage three-ers on the Fowler’s scale of spiritual development, and I suspect he has felt attacked intellectually lately with all the evidence against the BoM’s historicity. He seems to be making a last ditch effort to say “it is true! It is, it is, it is!…just like a desperate cry for God to give him relief from his cog-dis of late!

    ~Rick

    Like

  13. WendyP. says:

    My Facebook page flooded with comments from my true believing family and friends after Holland’s talk on the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. They were pretty hyped up. It was like a pep rally for believers. Haha…it was crazy.

    Whatever Elder Holland. There is plenty of evidence of fraud.

    Like

  14. Mike says:

    Good luck WnedyP.

    As per the usual – Holland’s talk was all emotion. Absolutely no facts. Nothing but anger, emotion and lashing out.

    It was a direct knee-jerk response to critics who are hitting close to home. Think about it; someone calls you a name. If it doesn’t even come close, you blow it off. If it carries some truth – it really pisses you off. Holland was pissed off. His church and lifestyle are loosing ground and losing it quickly.

    Feel sorry for him. Let’s move forward with compassion and truth – not emotion and anger.

    Like

  15. Kerry says:

    Natalie,
    I came across your blog quite by accident today or maybe it was not such an accident.
    Your statement about Joseph Smith having sex with a 14 year old girl is ludicrous.
    You make this claim as if you are someone with special knowledge that this purported act actually happened. Were you there to witness what you claim or can you produce any actual eye witness account that states someone saw Joseph having sex with Helen Mar Kimball. Could it be that you and others are actually
    naive to what it really means for someone to be sealed to Joseph?
    If you would open your mind and truly study the difference between marriage and sealing you might discover that there is no connection between a man and woman being sealed and having sex.
    To make a conncetion between what Joseph did by having Helen Mar Kimball sealed to him and what Brian David Mitchell, did (Kidnapping and Rape) really destroys your credibility.
    I suppose this comment will never make it in view of your readers but I hope you will be more careful in making claims that you have no way of proving.

    Like

  16. Miss O says:

    Denial can change History therefore control the future.

    It has been quite extraordinary to view my life inside and now outside of an organized cult. I am soooooo blessed to be able to think critically now. While watching conference (as it’s must more interesting to watch now) it was interesting to be able to decipher what my former reaction would of been (head nodding in the “yes” motion) vs. being able to see the smoke and mirrors with no evidence to back it up. I felt like a child being yelled at to the point of where you just say “yes ma’am” to the person yelling because she’s at the volume of scarring me into submission. Although leaving can be hard and hurts your ignorant family members, it is so much more spiritually peaceful. I hope everyone can experience spiritual freedom.

    Miss O

    Like

  17. proud2beLDS says:

    this is so sad that there’s a freaking website…it should be renamed “Trapped by IGNORANCE” …because you people obviously know nothing about the LDS church. I’m only 15 and i have such a strong testimony. I wasn’t forced into the church in any way- in fact, it was only my mom and I at first.
    Elder Holland wasn’t angry at all- go back to pre-k and learn your emotions, honeys. He was intense because he felt the spirit so strongly, and KNEW that the BOM was truly the word of God, and not one thing in his body or spirit could deny that. He wanted to stress the accuracy and truth of the book; obviously he feels very strongly about it. If you’d felt the spirit more strongly when you were LDS, you’d be able to decifer between anger and faith, and would probably still be sitting in a chapel. I’m so sad for any of you who have fallen away- probably from doubt and wonders that you never got proper answers for. I’ve had tons of doubt and wonders, but I always turned to the scriptures and to prayer for guidance and answers- just like i’ve always been taught.
    It’s so sad that you people believe all of these BS lies. Are any of you still Christian at least? If you are, then you’re hypocrites. Christians do NOT disrespect other religions, no matter what you hear about them (even though this crap you’re always talking about is false). It’s hypocracy not to live by the testimony that you know and share with others.
    I love this church soooo much with all my heart, and I have no idea where my family & I would be without it (and i don’t want to know, because it wouldn’t be as amazing as life is now). I know that God lives. I know that Christ gave His life for all of us, and that repentance through His atoning sacrifice is the way back to Him.
    I could never turn my back on the greatest blessing of my life, and I can’t imagine why any of you did. You don’t realize how much was in store for you, and i’m sorry that you didn’t. But always remember that it’s never too late to turn back. He loves you. He always has. He always will…no matter how far away you get from Him. Take this chance…pray before bed tonight. You don’t have to be a prophet to recieve personal revelation. Open up the sacred scriptures at the back of the shelf; wipe off the dust. Feel the spirit. Wake up…tomorrow will be the best day you’ve had in a while if you truly and sincerely pray to Heavenly Father for help. He will tell you what you should do; again, because He loves you so much. No matter how alone you feel, He will ALWAYS be there for you.
    You don’t have to charge up your phone, or dial a number; just get on your knees and humble yourself before the Lord. He wants to hear from you. He’s waiting to listen to His children. Don’t let him down. He’s still knocking…will you open the door for Him?

    Like

  18. proud2beLDS says:

    btw, you had the choice to be baptized when you were 8…the church doesn’t force itself on its members…and psycologists have proved that at the age of 6, kids are able to know the difference btn right & wrong. Accountability is part of every other Christian religion; not just LDS. That’s the point of getting baptized- to wash away old sins, and promise that you will, from then on, REPENT for your sins (because now you are aware of your actions). And duh you’re accountable for everything YOU do…do you think that someone else should be held responsible for YOUR mistakes?

    Like

  19. proud2beLDS says:

    “The FLDS Church is living the gospel the way Joseph Smith taught it.”
    -You’re confused. Joseph Smith recieved this revelation at one small point in time, but soon recieved revelation to STOP….the FLDS people didn’t listen to JS- they didn’t want to stop. It’s NOT JS’s fault- he TOLD THEM that God wanted them to discontinue the polygamy. They are NOT living the gospel the way ANYONE taught it. They are DISOBEYING it- they are directly disobeying God; it was HIS commandment to stop, but they didn’t. It’s not JS’d fault in any way.

    “I’m bothered that no one EVER wants to hold Brigham Young accountable for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I understand how it happened, folks.”
    -I haven’t studied the event, and I don’t know much about it, but c’mon- seriously Natalie? The prophets of God are not perfect; nor are they expected to be. They are normal men, just like everyone else. They are not sinless or perfect just because they’re a prophet. People make mistakes, Miss Natalie. There have been countless political leaders in the past (and present) that have made bad choices or mistakes…so why aren’t you raving on about them too? Making a mistake is part of everyday life and everyone does it, even the prophets. Jesus Christ was the ONLY perfect man. You’re probably sitting at your computer, surrounded by your cats, being probably at least 3x my age, yet I’m more mature about this than you are. Sad.

    Like

  20. PMP says:

    Oh sweetie, my 8 year old also believes in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, pink unicorns, etc… This young age is absolutely NOT the age to force a child into a this sort of commitment, that is indoctrination at its ugliest. No sensible parent would argue against teaching your children right from wrong. But let them make their own decisions and commitments when they are actually old enough to come to their own conclusions and have a firmer grasp of reality.

    Like

  21. Kelly says:

    Hi All,

    Well Proud let me tell you what goes on in Lutheran Churches
    with kids and their accepting to be members or not. During
    7th, 8th & 9th grade, students go to what’s called Catechism
    classes. One year you learn about church history. One year
    you learn about the church’s doctrines and beliefs. The
    final year you learn about other religions and their beliefs. The
    last year you’re not taught why your religion is better than all
    the rest. Instead they bring in people of different faiths to explain
    their religion. Plus we also go to different churches and sit through
    their sunday worship services. You should have seen the looks
    on the faces of local ward members when my class showed up.
    After three years of instructions, then and only then are the youth
    of our church asked if they want to join the church and be Confirmed
    in full membership.
    Most accept their Confirmation at which time they become full
    members. BUT some choose not to. That’s OK though because it’s
    their choice. They are not cast out or looked down upon. They still
    can receive all the church offers. They just can’t vote or hold an
    office.

    So don’t tell me hearding eight year olds through a trough of
    water amounts to accountability and it’s definitely not what every
    other religion does.

    Kelly

    Like

  22. Mormonlover says:

    i think this is really silly. god will answer your prayers, and maybe not in the way that you expect it, or hope for it to be. i know he exsists, and that this is the true church. My mom was mormon before she moved to the u.s. she and my dad were pen pals, and got married in the philipines. she moved here with him, but he wasnt all theat great of a guy. my dad went to jail often, and so my mom called up the church, she became best friends with the bishop and his wife. and when i turned 4, she had a stroke 5 days after my littlest sister was born. half her body was paralyzed. and my dad, he went to jail, again. my mom has been in there ever since, for 11 years, and my dad, i havent seen him since. but i know this church is true because the bishop and his wife is now my foster parents… caring for me adn my 3 other siblings. and in that way, the lord has blessed us. my mom is alive nad getting better, i live in a world of bad, but get that good from the church, i am guided and loved, and its because of the church. so for you to come up with a website against it, is really silly, like proud2belds- you are soo right 🙂 ,.. seeing and hearing and knowing people are affected by this religion, in a good way, and for you to think you are “trapped by mormons” .. you are just blinded by evil.

    Like

  23. PMP says:

    *sigh* Natalie, don’t you have a stock comment for people too lazy to read about the actual reasoning behind your blog? At the very least, provide us with one, so the first regular contributor and/or lurker can have it handy.

    That being said, this lurker will come out of the closet if only for a moment and give my real name. It’s Poem. Kind of an obvious and unique name doncha think? That’s why I go by my initials, PMP. You heard it here first. I’m a looooooong time lurker, and know most of you by “name” so I figured fair is fair. A big ole *wink* to all of you!

    Like

  24. Natalie says:

    You know the church is true because good people adopted you? I’m happy for you, Mormonlover. There are good people all over the world. Just because they believe doesn’t make the religion true. It takes more than a burning bosom.

    Like

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