A little bored girlie man who calls himself Lone Danite has made it his purpose in life to show other people how RIDICULOUS “Mormon haters” are. Except the problem is, he hasn’t really PROVED that anyone is hating ANYONE. I don’t hate Mormons at all. Never have. Don’t really believe it much, but still don’t hate them.
Danite Dan apparently believes that if you don’t believe, you ARE A HATER. You either have to go to church with him, and share sacrament cups of water and pieces of stale Wonderbread, or YOU ARE A HATER. Yeah, doesn’t make much sense, does it? The Internet, in all it’s wisdom, realizes this TOO, because no one ever goes to his blog. And since no one is apparently reading his blog (because let’s face it, WHY WOULD THEY? It’s ridiculously stupid), he pretty much spends all his time here, baiting people and writing about MY blog on his blog.
I have pretty much refused to send traffic to his blog by linking to it, and I’m going to continue NOT to link to it, because it’s stupid and boring, and TRAPPED is slowly becoming his only reason for existence.
Breathe Deep, Danite DingDong. Get a hobby. Go to a show. Do something.
But your desperation is showing. Hey, there we go. Desperate Danite. Chill, DD. Or be chilled. Last warning.
Writer in a Bubble 
Maybe Danite should read this, though I doubt it would help him understand any better. You just can’t help some haters.
http://uniformvelocity.com/2009/01/08/my-atheism-is-not-a-rejection-of-your-god/
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Ah yes, Weston “The Lone Danite” Krogstadt.
He really likes half naked pictures of men in loincloths. If it wasn’t so destructive it would be cute, you know, repressed homosexual challenging his urges through hypermasculinity… but you just can’t get away from those brawny Nephites. Their even in the scriptures!
While he is a one trick pony, it is an amusing trick. The repressed homo urges are a sore point, so if you wish to goad him into an apocalyptic fit, please continue on that vein. He’s now leaving petulant comments on my blog… praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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The speed with which he resorted to playground threats (i.e., “name when and where and I’ll kick your ass”) is very telling.
However, what bothered me the most was how his cowardly behaviour was equated with homosexuality.
Excuse me, Carl and Kirk, but plenty of homosexual men and woman are courageous and as heroic as any heterosexual human. Please do not fall for the homophobic behaviour sponsored by the mormons.
Call the imbecile an imbecile, childish excuse for a human being; a jerkwad blinded by his narrowmindedness; a zealot who must resort to bullying to protect the set of imposed beliefs that provide him with purpose. He has shown himself to be all of those, and more.
Thank you.
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I agree, Natalie. The labeling of non-believers as “haters,” and “angry ex-mormons” (when he sounds much angrier than any exmo I’ve ever heard!) seems to be a survival tactic.
Think about it. If we took a little time warning people interested, or members of Jonestown, or Koresh’s group, about the dangers or obvious false claims of their leader, logical people would understand and applaud our efforts. And I doubt any degree of assertiveness on our part would be called “Jonestown haters” or “angry” at all.
But when it comes to a cultlike group that one belongs to, and is aggressively defending, they feel the need, and probably do need to push us into a corner where we are the ultimate demons. Why? Then they don’t have to listen. They don’t have to take the emotional risk of learning that their life’s purpose and plan may be flawed.
That is scary! And those of us that have gone through the recovery process know that all too well.
Good luck to Todd, Danite et al in your own process. It’s not easy, but the truth is worth it!
~Rick
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Azteclady,
Once again, you are the voice of reason. Being pushed into a corner by an imbecile invoked reactions and responses from me that I believed had been left on battlefields years ago.
Accept my apologies.
Kirk
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Rick states:
His logic applies more directly to the cult of exmos who create and frequent blogs with sensational titles such as “Trapped by the Mormons”. Why? Because if they can marginalize the church and characterize it’s leaders and members as demons, they can justify their own emotionally insecure behavior, which ultimately leads to sorrow and misery.
Rick will grasp at almost anything to show that the church is in trouble. But the truth is that the church, as an organized body of believers, is thriving. Sure, there are a few bumps in the road, but we’re learning from our mistakes. As a whole, we’re striving, like all good people everywhere, to live by the precepts we profess, in a line-upon-line sort of way.
Admittedly, sometimes we fall short. But God is at the helm. Miracles are happening. We’ve survived deeper and darker times of apostasy, at even the highest levels of the church, and have emerged stronger and more able to move the work forward. As the chasm between good and evil grows wider, we expect it to get harder.
I, for one, choose to live by faith, not fear. Truth will prevail and we will all marvel at God’s wisdom. The fun part is watching it all unfold.
Kindest Regards,
Todd
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On this part we agree, Todd:
“I, for one, choose to live by faith (love), not fear. Truth will prevail and we will all marvel at God’s wisdom(reality. The fun part is watching it all unfold.
Such great advice. The only question is from which position do we observe? Which position is truly from unconditional love, and which is from fear?
You are right Todd. The church is learning from its bumps. Its evolving doctrines indicate it is open to new scientific evidences. Old antiquated dogmas are minimized and suppressed, while more PC doctrines are stressed at modern meetings. As I’ve said before, I welcome the changes. Someday we will all believe exactly the same things!
~Rick
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Btw, in my circle of (mostly exmo) friends, there is very little “sorrow and misery.” But if you have to think so for your “us = happy, them = miserable” paradigm to feel “right,” I understand. For the right price, I’ll try my weeping, wailing, and even see what gnashing of teeth would be like!
~Rick
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Thank you, Kirk.
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A whole post dedicated to little ol me! (batting the eye-lashes of my baby-blues) I just don’t know what to say. I’m touched, I’m shocked, I’m bewildered, I’m simply at a loss for words. And two of you have even offered to visit me out here in Arizona. I knew it was just a matter of time before I found a REAL group of Internet friends I could confide in! I want you to know I love all of you. I now know my mission: You are my brothers and sisters, and I will not stop until you, all of you, are safely in the fold. Amen.
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Hey, Weston, if that is even your name, I got the tickets to Zarahemla and I can’t find you. There are no Krogstadts listed in Arizona. They are mostly from Washington state. Applaud you on not giving your real name or career. So see, you are not as dumb as you appear. You don’t want to address the issues about the church. Even on your blog, that no one comments on, except your mother, there is nothing of substance. Quite frankly, if you ARE a boxer, the central part of reasoning in your brain, has been beaten out of you. You are more to be pitied than censored and no matter what lame retort you give, I will not be adding to this circus by commenting. For that is what you are so desperately craving. So call me what you will, because that is all you’ve got.
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Oh Mr. Danite, don’t humor yourself. You just represent the latest of the Mormon defenders of the blogosphere that would “rather fight than switch” (an old commercial phrase that most of you are too young to know…). It’s a trait that keeps you safe and locked into your philosophies…no matter what new evidence shows.
It’s okay. You’re not alone. There are the fighters that go around plugging their ears saying BLAH BLAH so they can’t hear the truth. Truth is, it’s easier to continue in ignorance than to venture into the real world.
Enjoy your boxing gym!
~Rick
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Shall have to clarify myself here.
Weston has a problem with gay people. I do not. I do take advantage of his problems to mock him incessantly.
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Rick states:
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if it were as simple as us = happy, them = miserable. If that were the case, no one would be a “them.” Personally, I’m okay to be acquainted with a little grief and to have a little sorrow in my life. If that’s the price I have to pay to get to know God, I’m willing to pay it.
Afterall, it’s not the NOW game that matters, it’s the END game IMO.
I hope we’re all there at the END and can look back and laugh at these petty little pissing matches we instigate. Sincerely…
Until then, I’ll go toe to toe at any time with any of you mormon hating pussys! 🙂
Kindest Regards,
Todd
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K..meet you at the gym! Lol!
I find God today. In my joy and happiness and in my grief. I don’t buy the “must suffer today for the prize God will give me tomorrow” concept. I think that keeps us from learning important spiritual truths today.
But I do think we will both be there in the end. So until then…
Take care Todd!
~Rick
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Rick,
I’ve put on my exercise shoes and my jock strap (and nothing else!). You want the elliptical machine challenge first, or the stair climber? 😉
I don’t buy the “must suffer to earn the prize” concept either. My point wasn’t that suffering = reward. But if some suffering and discomfort and sacrifice is required to teach me important spiritual truths and, even more importantly, help mold me into a Christ-like person; then I’m more than willing to pay THAT price.
Todd
p.s. Sorry if the visual made you sick to your stomach!
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WOW! Now because I disagree with the beliefs of Mormons I hate them? This is a very slippery slope. If hummanity has any concept of what the mormons are capable of i would strongly suggest that the Mormons just be left alone to whaller in their own filth on this one. Any corporation from outside Utah that acually thinks it will get fair treatment here is nuts. All you ceo type out there pay attention now.
You will come to Utah with your best and brightest and as soon as these people let the Mormons of their community know that they will not be joing the “Only true church” , your best people, the ones you moved to Utah, will leave your company because they have no option and you the ceo will be left with a broken company.
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The question Joseph is said to have asked in the grove, “Which church is true?” IF answered the way he said it was, “None, all are abominable” leaves one to pause since his mother joined the Presbyterian church in the mid-1820’s AND since Joseph himself taught in a Methodist church and even joined the church, but was later kicked out as being an unreputable person.
It’s only the ‘official’ version the church wants you to know about, because the FACTS tell a different story…or should I say stories. Who did he see in the first vision, Nephi, angels, the Lord, two personages, one angel… so many versions… can they all be right? Even Brigham Young said he did not believe Joseph saw God and Jesus. How old was he? 15, 17, 14… so many versions, the math doesn’t work out folks. Then there’s the priesthood restoration… no talk of angelic restoration until after (drum roll please) the Kirtland fiasco when Joseph had to ‘prove’ he had power. Whoa, check it out… get the facts. Oh wait, you can’t the church pulled Journal of Discourses off the shelves.
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For those wishing to read a different, and more thoroughly documented, version of some of the same tired old things Rob regurgitates, I would offer the following: Historical or Hysterical— Anti-Mormons and Documentary Sources.
Kindest Regards,
Todd
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Interesting read below to completely counteract Todds dribble. Study for yourselves. Not just Todd’s sources. All sources.
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon211.htm
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Another very interesting article concerning the rise and fall of the LDS Church
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/riseandfalloftheldschurch.htm#Missions%20Overreach
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Many years ago, I was the PR rep for the LDS church in Europe. Frequently, we would receive direct communication from the general council missionary committee regarding proselyting and fellowshipping efforts in our “area”. Charles Didier was the general authority that we directly reported to. To this day, I am still in possession of documents and letters that were intended to be included in our publications and press packages, the vast majority of which contained statistics and data portraying large church member growth information for the LDS church since it’s inception early in the 19th century. We would also regularly publish this data in Church printed materials, including the New Era, Ensign and the church section of the local Deseret News. We were encouraged to portray the church as a global church, fulfilling ancient prophecy. After all, the LDS church is the “stone cut out of the mountain rolling forward to fill the earth” (a la Daniel in the Old Testament). For years, the church has argued or hinted that its high growth rate (“the fastest in the world”) was the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. We not only published and promoted this to the world, this high growth rate served as “social proof,” to millions of faithful (“the church must be true, why look at how fast it’s growing–the fastest in the world.) These numbers and growth data were mentioned from the pulpit in LDS general conferences – – and parroted in subsequent seminary, institute classes, youth seminars etc. etc. etc.. What happened??
“The LDS case study is unique not so much because it is phenomenal, but because it is well publicized. Other groups that egresses from mainline Christianity and took off in roughly the same period as the Mormons are now either bigger (Seventh Dad Adventists: membership 20 million) or growing faster (Jehovah’s Witness) Yong
Where are the published growth numbers now? We must really ask what is happening to real church growth statistics. The reason the topic surfaces so very frequently, is largely due to public perception and LDS practice. LDS folks are still quoting (very frequently – I can provide links and data sound bites if necessary) in interviews that the LDS is still the fastest growing religion in the world today. Although I believe that the informed public is now understanding how distorted this comment is, LDS folks have brought this on themselves. They cannot blame the rest of us for merely pointing out the inconsistencies in their message: first – growth is important, and we’ll publish it every chance that we get. Second – (now that LDS growth is diminishing) “It is no longer a serious issue, and we don’t appreciate you bringing it up all the time – you anti Mormons.”
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Kirk,
Any way you can post the original versions of the Didier materials so we can formulate our own opinions and draw our own conclusions.
Thanks!
Todd
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Todd,
I’ll scan them into a document for you on your own web site. I’m certain though, that you have ready access to the other materials (conference talks, old Ensign articles, church news sections etc at your disposal.) It shouldn’t be news to anyone growing up in the LDS church how frequently growth statistics were quoted and used.
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It is interesting that there is always an acceptable reason for what happens in the church. For example, if the church membership or growth declines, it is because the elect are few in the latter days. If it grows, it is evidence for God’s hand in the accelorated growth.
If a person is successful, it is because he has been obedient to certain commandments and is reaping the rewards. If he fails, he is being tested.
If a person dies before his time, it is because God needed him on the other side. If he lives longer than average, it is because of his diligent obedience to the word of wisdom,
The list of possibilities is endless, but with this strategic paradigm, there will never be a way to prove or disprove the “truth” of Mormonism!
~Rick
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Excellent, well-researched and documented study on LDS church growth.
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Population_and_growth_rate
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Check out this well researched and documented SLC Trib article.
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2890645
Live by truth, knowledge, love and understanding. Religion, fear, guilt and retribution can bring suicide and depression to similar heights as experienced in Utah.
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Attended an LDS baptism for a niece this past Saturday. After “graduating” Mormonism (Rick terminology) – the ceremony, from the initial prayer through the confirmation process, where the “gift of the Holy Ghost” was bestowed on the child, my thoughts were directed towards the many children present as observers.
Having participated in these ceremonies and rituals for more than five decades I can deeply appreciate the strong Mormon feelings in these meetings; beautiful, respectful, innocent children – – the love and light of parent’s lives. White clothing, smiles, reassuring talks from adults – condoning this smart decision that the child is making. In this particular baptism, a talk was given with personal testimony expressed many times of the watchful and protecting influence of the Holy Ghost. The speaker even related personal experiences where he was certain that his life would have been taken if not for the small, guiding voice of the Holy Ghost. And, further testimony and messages were presented explaining that once the Holy Ghost is received, it’s presence and power is strictly conditional upon the correct actions of the recipient. In other words, “screw up and you’ll be on your own!” I look back with guilt and disgust over my decades of participation in these rituals.
Yes, Rick – I believe that you are right. How can we possibly know what God’s intentions are, well enough to ascertain reasons for untimely death, injury, monetary success or any other life situation.” Often, these statements are hurtful and ignorant. For example, remember a few years ago when a local Utah boy scout was lost in the Uinta Mountains? A massive search ensued, spearheaded by the lost boy’s father. Hundreds of volunteers and professional support people were involved. The boy was never found. One year later in similar conditions, a boy of about the same age wandered off and was lost. The parents of the first boy, partly because of their experience a year prior, volunteered to help locate the second boy. The child was found. During a press conference, the mother of the second child expressed publically that she had obtained a real testimony that God loves her family and answered their prayers. I could see the pain and emotional trauma on the mother of the first boy who had died. The message was clear. Did not God love her family too? Why would God answer one prayer and not the other? Was the first boy somehow needed in heaven at that time? I submit that none of us truly knows the answers. And if we believe that we do, these answers are personal, private and spiritual – and should remain so.
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Yes Kirk…perfectly said!
~Rick
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Rick & Kirk,
Your posts reminded me of some knee-jerk responses by a few members I know after Hurricane Katrina all but wiped out New Orleans. They were certain that New Orleans was being punished for its wickedness.
It speaks to the apparently human need to assign causes to an apparent effect.
At the time, the area GAs and several local church leaders clearly communicated to members that such talk was, in effect, nonsense.
Unfortunately, in the case of hurricane Katrina, the truly wicked (the corrupt and incompetent officials who let the levy infrastructure deteriorate, etc.) were NOT punished. To the contrary, many innocent people were “punished,” including those of us who sacrificed time and comfort to provide clean-up and other forms of relief, primarily on week-ends, over a several month period.
Best Regards,
Todd
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Todd – excellent example! I remember it well. God-fearing people from many disciplines (not just LDS folks) were quick to jump on this punishment theme. We heard the same rhetoric about God’s retribution when the Tsunami hit Indonesia.
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Yes, and the knee-jerk responses are (or at least were when I was active) the norm rather than the exception. The testimony meetings were filled with the average member stating how grateful she was to be a member and all the “blessings” she received because of it.
I was actually conducting a meeting when a lady bore her testimony that she knew the church was true because when she’d been in a car accident, her lower leg was crushed, but was just fine above the knee where the garments were. She knew she would have died without having the garments on. The bishop asked to take some time at the end of the meeting (I was the 1st counselor at the time) to correct her — which he did quite tactfully.
Point is, many members have strong convictions in God’s overseeing hands in their daily lives — and I’m not just talking feel good spiritual blessings. And usually when bad things happen, they attribute it to them not being faithful enough.
I know, I know…we can’t use these bizarre examples as any indication of whether the church is true or not. The problem is that most members have many testimony-building stories like this that they hang their hat on to “know it’s true!”
If we took all of them and corrected each to the real possibility that it was all random, there wouldn’t be any necessity to belong to the church at all!
Imagine that.
~Rick
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Todd, please understand that these examples are not personal attacks – or directed only at the LDS church. I’m certain that many examples can be applied to humanity as a whole.
Another quick “faith promoting” story that is directly involved with the LDS church however – – – While I was PR guy serving in Europe – I know that I’m being a bit vague on exact location here, but this is intentional (not evasive). In one mission, late seventies, the LDS church was having a very difficult time winning the public image war. The mission pres decided that it would be a great PR move to save up all the baptisms for the entire year and culminate the proselyting efforts with one huge baptism, mission-wide, on the same day. Advance press packets for the event were sent to every major newspaper and magazine in the country. Special pamphlets were printed using church growth statistics worldwide as a marketing and promotion tool. The goal was to have 100 (yes – one hundred) baptisms on a single day. Nobody was to mention that fact that the entire mission was holding off and scheduling baptisms that would normally have been performed throughout the year, for this special day. Church headquarters was notified and ran articles in the LDS church sections of newspapers. Wire services were notified. It was promoted as if 100 people had miraculously decided to join the church, and were going to be the base of a “ground-swell” movement that would provide the catalyst for huge numbers of conversions. The day arrived, baptisms were performed, and newspapers and magazines ran the pre-approved and printed press releases from LDS headquarters. It was truly an inspiring event. Problem was, it was a lie. I was privy to actual numbers. Fewer than 58 baptisms were actually performed. This didn’t stop the church from moving forward with the PR statements. Gordon B. Hinkley was directly involved and actually had press conferences with national leadership during this time. I have a photo of myself (I translated for the conference), Gordon B. Hinkley, the mission president and the country’s top leadership in the same frame. Everyone knew the truth, and nobody questioned or stopped the lie – myself included.
I’m very skeptical of most “faith-promoting” stories. I’m also very skeptical about LDS marketing techniques.
Kirk
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Kirk,
I have a difficult time characterizing sincere efforts that fall a little short as (malicious) lies with a clear intent to deceive, but I can certainly understand where you’re coming from with your PR story.
To provide a personal example…
As a young engineer at a chemical plant in Texas, I was involved in a project that was intended to significantly reduce a hazardous waste product (that was incinerated on-site) by using some fairly simple technology that converted part of the stream back to one of the raw materials. It was a classic win-win for the business: save expensive raw materials from incineration and reduce waste.
The equipment was installed and started up and proved to be virtually inoperable. But that didn’t stop business management from touting it as a great success. The project team won the coveted “Chairman’s Award” and the CEO for the company came to our plant to give us the award personally. The manufacturing manager was insistent that the equipment be running when the chairman came, which of course we made happen; but it was shut-down soon thereafter and never restarted (despite our intentions to solve the problem).
I suppose we should all learn from these counting-the-chicks-before-they’ve-hatched dilemmas. I believe they happen frequently in many walks of life, including religion.
Bottom line… Good people make mistakes. I hate to judge too harshly, lest by so doing I am judged too harshly myself.
We can all be more honest, call a spade a spade, and move forward with faith.
Best Regards,
Todd
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Todd,
I appreciate your realism. I’m sure you are a great asset to the church. Yes, PR is PR…and sometimes the tactics are a little less than integrous — in all sales companies, religion included.
~Rick
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Close study of history illuminates and helps us avoid dangerous trends and practices of past generations. Circa 350 A.D. – and after Constantine went the rounds with Athanasius and Arias (two major players in early Christian theology) establishing the Nicene Creed in a futile attempt at establishing conformity to Christianity, the Roman empire was in a theological battle. Fighting amongst the differing Christian sects had reached a fevered point; a boiling point culminating in murders, assassination plots, covert undercover operations – each Christian sect fighting for dominance in the public image wars. Emperor’s support for warring bishops changed frequently as rhetoric battles continued to destroy empires.
Historian Ammianus said, “no wild beasts are such enemies to mankind as are most Christians in their deadly hatred of on another.”
Unfortunately, this holds true today. Battle lines are drawn. Theological battles are fought and never one. Hatred continues.
Kirk
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Sorry – I should read my posts before submitting them. In the last part of my post – I meant to say “won” not one. I use a voice activation system that translates my spoken words into written words. I don’t catch everything correctly.
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It is for this reason (that Kirk spoke of) that I find it hard to swallow any religion today. History shows us that there was so much fighting over what God said and meant (and of course, that was all subject to interpretation by those that heard the words from the “prophets”), and there was certainly a motive for being “chosen,” and then most people couldn’t read anyway, so the stories were passed down through the generations by the spoken word….
It’s hard enough to get the whispered secret right when sending it around the circle…now separate that by a few thousand years, and you’ve got a real challenge!
So many say “that’s why we have modern prophets to help clarify God’s words and intentions.” And of course that sounds great! Problem is that when you look at the gross inconsistencies in what “they” claim he said to them, logic makes you wonder if somebody got their wires crossed. Even in the short history of Mormonism, the messages are grossly different today than what Joseph and Brigham claimed.
So for me, religion is easy today. I try to live the golden rule. All major religious philosophies teach that as an important guideline, and it just makes sense. I think in the end, all the “good” faiths will sort out the contradictory dogma and end up with only that teaching anyway!
~Rick
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Rick, you might be interested in an excellent book that I just finshished reading – for the third time! Title: When Jesus Became God
Who knows, even Todd might have some interest as well.
Great read.
Kirk
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Sounds like a good read…I’ll check it out! During my transition out of Mormonism, I was helped by reading many of Joseph Campbell’s books. He does a good job of comparing the “heroes” of the major religions…and it’s quite fascinating how many have the same story — virgin birth, “son” of God, atonement, death and resurrection, etc.. I imagine your book talks about much of that.
It’s been helpful (at least for me) to study the history of religions. It gave me a sense of peace to understand where all the fear came from in religions. It was the most effective way to control the masses of people. Think about it — what better way than to convince folks that if they don’t do what you tell them, they will spend eternity in hell!
Some still believe it today.
~Rick
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Similar paths – similar studies. Thanks for mentioning it Rick. Campbell’s work while he was alive, and his charitable foundation today provide some excellent research into our current belief system. The old cliché that the more we study, the more we come to understand that we don’t know – certainly is true. But, I believe this is a very important point to arrive at; admitting that we don’t really “know”. I believe that focusing on religious metaphor as historical fact, believing in the inerrancy of ancient scripture leads to spiritual and emotional turmoil.
But, like Rick, I’ll admit that I could be wrong.
Kirk
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Wow,
What a great site, full of knowledgeable and courteous people… and apparently another called Lone Danite!
Well, I’ll go ahead and introduce myself, Natalie. Sorry I have to stay anonymous (one of those people, I know), since my family is still very much active in the Church.
I would kindly welcome your readers to my young blog for some respectful comments (I even have my very own troll to entertain the group) and I’ll make sure to stop by here for the discussions.
Cheers and thanks for a great blog!!!
LWM
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Really good work about this website was done. Keep trying more – thanks!
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