Redux, Redux, Redux, Redux, Redux….

One thing I don’t really like about this blog is the fact that I have to say the same things OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

Currently, I am being SPAMMED (and yes, I consider it SPAM) by some annoying person who thinks I hate Mormons. He even has a blog devoted to people he thinks hate Mormons, and he keeps posting stupid links to his stupid blog HERE on my blog. And guess what? I am not going to even LINK to the blog, because it irritates the shit out of me. In fact, I may spend a few hours linking to thousands of OTHER blogs that aren’t this blog just because it irritates me THAT MUCH. Or not. (Have a Web site to do, so I don’t really have time for that. But it made me feel better just saying it.)

I just delete his spam comments, asking people to visit HIS blog. His hilarious blog. Not so hilarious, really. Just kinda freaky.

So, here we go again, just for the record. I don’t hate Mormons. I LOVE Mormons, and not in a creepy “I-love-Mormons-so-much-I-want-to-save-them-from-the-Hellfires-of-eternal-damnation” kinda way, either. I have lots of Mormon friends, and they know I don’t really believe Mormonism is true, and in fact, think it’s all kinda silly. But that doesn’t add up to hate.

Sorry. Good try.

Stop spamming my blog. I don’t hate Mormons, but I’m really starting to DISLIKE you.

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About Natalie R. Collins

Natalie has more than 30 years writing, editing, proofreading and design experience. She has written 20 books (and counting), has worked for the Sundance Film Festival, and as an investigative journalist, editor, and proofreader. She embraces her gypsy-heart and is following her new free-thinking journey through life. Follow her as she starts over and learns a bunch of life's lessons--some the hard way.
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33 Responses to Redux, Redux, Redux, Redux, Redux….

  1. Todd says:

    Natalie,

    Is it safe to say you HATE mormonism, but not mormons? You know, hate the sin but love the sinner.

    BYW, see my anti-anti blog here at: http://www.why-natalie-hates-mormonism-and-why-i-think-she‘s-nuts.org.

    Hope you’re having a great day!

    Love,
    Todd

    Like

  2. azteclady says:

    Hmmm…

    Why is it that not believing something translates (in the minds of many people who believe that something) into hatred for the thing or the people who believe the thing?

    Somewhere there is a disconnect, methinks.

    Like

  3. Natalie says:

    Are you trying to say Mormonism is a SIN, Todd? Have you gone all Holy Roller Born Again on us?

    It is NOT safe to say I hate MORMONISM. I don’t hate that, either. I don’t BELIEVE it. And sometimes I think it is DOWNRIGHT SILLY. Again, that does not equal hate.

    And is that name REALLY available? You should SO register it…..

    Like

  4. Cele says:

    You do know that by definition Mormogs are proflic, ergo you will always be besieged by idiots who think you hate them by rote. It’s a cycle of life.

    Like

  5. Todd says:

    Since, by definition, mormonism encompasses all truth and rejects anything that is not truth; Natalie; I’m glad that you don’t hate it. I am puzzled that you don’t believe things that are true and sometimes think that they’re “downright silly.” That would seem illogical in a quest for truth. Unless, of course, you’re referring to the things some mormons say and do, and not mormonism itself. Humans can be the silliest creatures, imperfect as they are!

    It’s entirely logical, however, to reject falsehoods and think they’re downright silly. But then again, rejecting falsehoods would be a major quest of mormonism: to know the truth and thus be set free!

    Hiding from Ike (the hurricane),
    Todd

    Like

  6. K*tty says:

    Todd, how are we to know what the truth is, when it is spoken from the mouth of men, those silliest of creatures? Just wondering. Or are we to believe that if a Mormon man speaks it, that’s the end of discussion. Hope you are safe from Ike. I will put a good word in for you, to the powers that be.

    Like

  7. Natalie says:

    Todd, are you smoking crack again?

    Hope you’re safe from the Hurricane, though…. I hear it’s a doozy. Stay dry.

    Like

  8. angie says:

    Hey, my friend & great blog. (I’ve just started a personal blog myself. What fun.)

    Wish we were back in N.O. with more free time to play. Hugs and let me know how/what you’re doing. Heard from Cherry lately?

    Loveage!

    Like

  9. Todd says:

    The truth is…. Ike is here. But we’re far enough inland to be safe from the floods. We’ll certainly see some wind damage and probably be without power for several days. Have I mentioned that I’m missing good ole Utah right now.

    How to know what is truth… Hmmm… I would definitely say that anything uttered by a human is suspect; being, you know; silly, imperfect creatures.

    Anything uttered while on crack would also be a little suspect, for self-evident reasons. Natalie seems to know a little bit about that!

    Maybe we could apply a biblical test to everything! There’s an unambiguous solution for you! Not!

    Maybe a more scientific approach is best. If I can’t prove it using science, it must not be true. Scientific method is probably too limited and too slow. But, of course, truth should be able to pass scientific tests.

    Prayer? Direct revelation? Holy Ghost? Those are all seemingly valid options, but couldn’t we be deceived?

    Maybe we should just pick a position and whoever argues the loudest or the smuggest or the most eloquent must know the truth.

    What do you think?

    Todd

    Like

  10. Natalie says:

    I have NEVER smoked crack. Not even once. It’s against my religion. Kinda like ironing.

    Like

  11. Natalie says:

    Ang! On my way to check out your blog. You staying dry down there? I know there’s been some more flooding, and I worry about all my Louisiana friends.

    Like

  12. angie says:

    Dry here this time, girlie! Texas got slammed, and we mostly escaped this one. Now…to unboard the windows and let in some light!

    Like

  13. dragonhlm says:

    Todd,
    I just don’t know where to begin, but for arguments sake let us start with your definition of mormonism. Mormonism: the doctrines and practices of the Mormon Church based on the Book of Mormon. Nope nothing about truth. Now on to “how to know the truth”. I am not sure which side you are trying to argue.
    1. I think we both can agree that because your prophet and seer Joseph Smith is a man everything he said is suspect.
    2. We both agree that the bible is not a valid test. Oh I could argue that the bible warns us of false prophets, but you would just counter “in as far as it is translated correctly.” And then you could argue that it tells of other children that must be visited, but I would parry and thrust “if it is even true, the bible is just a compilation of older stories embellished for effect.
    3. Your list would like us to discuss the scientific method next, but we need to look at your spiritual test next. Prayer; for eons man has prayed to one god or another. We used to sacrifice still beating human hearts to Huitzilopochtli to make sure the sun would rise the next day. I am quite sure this prayer did receive the desired result, but I also think the sun would have risen without the offering. This prayer took place for centuries and everyday it was answered, but it does not prove the belief to be true. Now we could talk about unanswered prayers, but I think that makes it too easy to prove the nonexistence of a compassionate god. (How many of your starving children could you watch die at the hands of tyrants? I would guess none.) Holy Ghost; I think we could refer back to number one. Beings created by man would have to be discounted. Direct revelation; I think this could be our only valid option in this group. In order for this to be plausible everyone would have to receive the same answer in the same way, maybe a heavenly loud speaker telling the entire world how to worship. I think a quick look at the many beliefs on this planet would show that we have not had direct revelation.
    4. The scientific method; I know this to be the true test of the truth. I will outline the seven steps of how this process works just to be sure you understand. Ask a question, do background research, construct a hypothesis, test your hypothesis by doing an experiment, analyze your data and draw a conclusion, report your results(was your hypothesis correct?) One last thing your experiment needs to be reproducible. Everyone who preforms your test needs to come up with the same result. This is the only way to determine truth. It works all the time, it works every time. You could even apply this to your faith in Joseph Smith. I would like to review your work when you are done, given you have the guts to submit your research to peer review. Good luck Todd. Sorry Natalie for taking so much space.
    Mike

    Like

  14. Justme says:

    I think I know who you’re talking about, and for someone who thinks you should leave “the church” alone, the guy was pretty anti-nonmormon and, well, anti-antimormon, and had a lot to say about it.

    Like

  15. Tracy says:

    “Since, by definition, mormonism encompasses all truth and rejects anything that is not truth”

    Todd, I thought truth was subjective?

    Like

  16. Weston says:

    Please visit my blog to deal with your hate:

    mormonhatershow.blogspot.com

    Like

  17. azteclady says:

    Someone seems to have huge reading comprehension issues.

    Like

  18. Renee says:

    I hate Weston’s hating. Can I do that?

    Like

  19. Natalie says:

    SEEEEEE???? Damn, how’s that for illustration. Except I want to remove it, because he’s such a friggin idiot. Argh.

    Like

  20. Justme says:

    I think Weston is an anti-Mormon-hater…ummm….anti-mormonhater?….erm, anti-hater of Mormon haters?…no, wait!…anti-hater of….whatever…we know Weston is anti…

    I know you are not a Mormon hater, Natalie, but I do think that people who hate Mormon haters should just leave the Mormon haters alone.

    Like

  21. KM says:

    I personally like Mormons. They’re usually quite nice and not very hate-able. But that doesn’t mean the religion isn’t silly. I was excommunicated years ago and I love it. I would be excommunicated a dozen more times if I could get any more excommunicated than I already am. Joseph Smith was a fraud and a charlatan and the story he made up is simply unbelievable. Mormons can hate me all they want, or they can pray for me. Either way, their efforts will have the same effect: zilcho.

    I am glad my kids were raised in the church. Not by me, but my parents took them weekly, after which I de-programmed them by pointing out the absurdity of mormon claims. They did make friends with nice, responsible kids through mormonism, and they are now pretty immune to stupid culty indoctrination techniques. I think of it as a sort of intellectual vaccine. Thanks for the fun former-mormer thoughts. I have no doubt that there are kids out there who are trying to think their way out of the goofiness that will someday look back with thanks that there were voices of reason who helped them along the way.

    In fact, your blog has inspired me to encourage my kids to seek their own excommunications. Not that they actually believe any mormon nonsense, but formalizing their non-mormon status might be a good adult intellectual thing to do. In the mean time, invite those young missionaries in, give them some cookies, and let them know that there is an alternative.

    Like

  22. Natalie says:

    LOL, you guys are all cracking me up.

    KM, welcome! Glad to have you hear at Trapped. Ignore that stupid spam blogger over in the corner. He thinks he has a burning bosom, and doesn’t realize it’s heartburn.

    Like

  23. KM says:

    Well, as to the spam blogger: methinks the mormo doth protest too much. Poor dear. He’ll eventually realize that the reason he goes all breathless in his defenses is that they’re quite futile.

    Like

  24. Todd says:

    dragonflm,

    Too funny… Here’s my response:

    1) Do you really think that Mormonism is based on the Book of Mormon? If so, you are sadly misinformed. Mormonism is fundamentally based on revelation from God, which by definition is truth. Mormons are not required to believe anything that isn’t true.

    2) We can agree that Joseph Smith was a man and that anything he said is suspect. Joseph Smith’s critics were also men and anything they said is also suspect. Mormons do not believe that the prophet is infallible or incapable of being wrong, only that they won’t lead us astray. We sustain these good men despite their humanity.

    3) We can agree that the Bible is not a valid test. That is not to say that the Bible doesn’t contain truth, but is often too ambiguous to resolve every doctrinal dispute. Your example regarding the warning of false prophets is probably a truth. There will likely be false prophets. That neither proves nor disproves that Joseph Smith, for example, was or was not a false prophet. One could, however, search the Bible for characteristics of true prophets and easily come to the conclusion that Joseph Smith fits the profile. Others may easily reach the opposite conclusion. So, who is right? What is the truth of the matter? (Those questions are rhetorical.)

    4) I’m not sure I follow your logic regarding prayer, but I think we agree. If we believe a certain something, say a prayer, and the results are favorable, or even unfavorable; that doesn’t prove or disprove anything about prayer itself. The truth about our plantary system is pretty solid and the sun will likely rise tomorrow based on the workings of that system. Early religious thought was false regarding the earth as the center of the universe. Science ultimately prevailed. I could argue that it’s a least plausible that all scientific knowledge is given by God at His discretion.

    5) I reject your position on direct revelation. Truth is independent and therefore doesn’t have to be heard by everyone at the same time and in the same way. God can reveal truth to me, and me alone, and just because you didn’t hear it doesn’t mean it’s not truth. I also reject your conclusion that because there are so many differing beliefs, that there has been no direct revelation on earth. That’s a pretty big leap in logic.

    6) I understand scientific method, but consider that in order to prove or disprove a theory, your method has to be able to detect your measure. Just because a stick can’t detect electrical potential, doesn’t disprove electricity. I think we agree that truth should be able to stand up to scrutiny. However, just because I can’t prove a truth, doesn’t mean it isn’t a truth. It just means I can’t prove it.

    Kindest Regards,
    Todd

    P.S. We got hit pretty good by hurricane Ike, but didn’t sustain any damage to our home. Several homes in our area had some minor damage. There are several areas around Houston that didn’t fare so well. We’re still without power at our house, but they say it’s coming!

    Like

  25. Natalie says:

    Dear Todd,

    Wow, you have some serious circular logic skills there. But hey, to each his own.

    SO glad you didn’t sustain any damage to your home, and that your family is safe. NO POWER????? Good God. How are you on the Internet???

    We’re glad you are still checking in.

    Like

  26. Brian says:

    Hi, I was transferred to Utah in January. It was the worst place i have ever been, and I am an Iraq war vet. I am now safe 2000 miles away, it cost me $10,000 but i escaped, and it was worth it, I hope life in “Zion” is easier for you then it was for me,

    Like

  27. Todd says:

    How do we survive without power? It’s easy! We drop $700 on a generator and spend $20 a day on fuel to keep it running! All to keep $300 worth of food in the fridge and freezer fresh. Now there’s logic for you! But, the generator also keeps cell phones and computers charged, the TV and satellite networks powered up, and fans blowing the hot, humid air around (so it doesn’t FEEL so bad).

    At least we’ve got clean water and the water heaters still work! And, our phone lines are still working.

    But I digress…

    So, Natalie, to which circular logic might you be referring?

    Trying to stay cool…
    Todd

    Like

  28. Chooses to live in Utah says:

    Natalie, I am new to your blog and maybe you’ve written this somewhere but I’m just curious why you feel trapped here. If this place is so bad why don’t you move somewhere else where you can be happy? I didn’t like my last job so I found a new one and I love life right now. It just seems kind of silly to me that someone would complain about the place they live when they have the freedom to move anywhere they want.

    Like

  29. Renee says:

    Chooses to live in Utah:

    Please read more and you will understand Natalie better.

    I, on the other hand, am getting the hell out of Zion because I don’t have the patience of that ‘Ain’t.

    Freedom doesn’t always happen when you want it to. But sometimes it happens when you NEED it to.

    Like

  30. azteclady says:

    If it were so easy to just “move somewhere else” when you are not happy with how things go where you live, some places would be deserted, and others would be overflowing.

    Then people would try to stem the flood by building fences and…

    Wait….

    Like

  31. Caleb says:

    Hello eveyone. I am a Mormon. After reading all of your comments I came to understand that you all like to argue and disagree. I’m not here to do any of both. I’m just here to say that I faith that the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints is the true church. I don’t expect any of you to believe me. I just hope that you don’t criticize me for putting all my belief in faith. But I believe it so strongly that I would die for it. Also, maybe if you prayed sincerly, then you’d get the right answer. that is all

    Like

  32. Caleb says:

    Hello eveyone. I am a Mormon. After reading all of your comments I came to understand that you all like to argue and disagree. I’m not here to do any of both. I’m just here to say that I have faith that the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints is the true church. I don’t expect any of you to believe me. I just hope that you don’t criticize me for putting all my belief in faith. But I believe it so strongly that I would die for it. Also, maybe if you prayed sincerly, then you’d get the right answer. that is all

    Like

  33. Tracy says:

    “maybe if you prayed sincerly, then you’d get the right answer”

    you mean the Mormon answer…Oops, I guess that’s arguing and disagreeing with you, and we don’t need that, that’s just wrong.

    Like

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