Polygamy is a touchy subject…

Our friend Dot, posted this comment on the most recent Weenie Rat Face post.

This is the first time I have come to your webpage – I have seen comments from you on Jeff Lindsay’s site… I just want to say, as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, and yes, in Utah… Polygamy was practiced and may be practiced again…who cares? In my understanding it was more for the benefit of the members – to receive temple ordinances, safe trip across the country, etc. Yes, it was changed about the same time the law changed, we believe in obeying the laws of the land. So what’s the big deal? Yes, there are those who practice polygamy now that are not members or would be excommunicted if they were found practicing it. Also, the thought of polygamy in the celestial world, I believe very firmly it will be in effect. I have a friend who’s mother died when he was 12. His parents were sealed in the temple. His dad remarried again and they had children together…he was also sealed to her. Why would God make him choose which wife he wanted to be with for eternity? He won’t. Why can people not see that’s a blessing?? If I died tomorrow, I would want my husband to remarry and for eternity if he wished. Those who understand doctrine can accept it faithfully, those who do not understand it will reject it.

Posted Mar 10, 2:44 PM

Sorry, Dot, but your post doesn’t fly. Your “understanding” of polygamy is TOTALLY off base from LDS teachings, and yet you write at the end of your post, “Those who understand the docrine can accept it faithfully, those who do not understand it will reject it.” You don’t understand it at all, therefore using your logic, you MUST reject it.

How is allowing a man to have as many wives as he wishes a blessing? How could this possibly be a God-given ordinance? Have you studied the LDS History, and did you know that Smith’s “revelations” came about after his eye began to stray, and Emma was ready to kick his ass to the curb?

So many lies have been spread regarding this controversial doctrine. As children, we were taught that there were too many women and not enough men to go around, and because marriage was essential for passage into the Celestial Kingdom, therefore, men must have more than one wife. This is VERIFIED as a teaching of the Mormon church. And since then it has been PATENTLY disproved, with census records and such (there were ALWAYS more men than women in the LDS Church, with good reason. Men get to be Gods and rule their own planet with tons of spirit wives. That’s awfully attractive).

You can search and search and search but you WILL NEVER Find any valid argument in defense of polygamy. I invite anyone to try. In addition, your “understanding” of polygamy does not hold water. Why would POLYGAMY help people receive temple ordinances or get across the country safely. Are you kidding me. There have ALWAYS been more men than women. Plenty of men to go around, therefore, women did NOT need someone else’s husband to help them get into the Celestial Kingdom. They had plenty others to CHOOSE from.

Please do not use the word “understanding” when in fact all you are talking about is blind faith. You’ve been told it’s true, so you accept it in BLIND FAITH. You could care less what the real story is, and will not even begin to go about finding it, because you prefer being told how to think and act.

And that’s the bottom line. If it works for you, more power to you. But don’t ask me, “Who cares?” Lots of people, with intelligent minds and genuine desire to know the truth, CARE. It’s a deceptive practice, with no real way for it to be addressed honestly, and since Mormons claim to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH, they are required to stand up and back up every tenet and every teaching. If you can’t, then you lose any right to claim any such thing.

Who cares? Millions of people who are lured into being baptized Mormon without knowing the LDS Church’s true history or basic teachings and tenets.

It matters, because it is blatantly dishonest to hide history and fact behind smoke and mirrors and promises of eternal salvation.

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About Natalie R. Collins

Natalie has more than 30 years writing, editing, proofreading and design experience. She has written 20 books (and counting), has worked for the Sundance Film Festival, and as an investigative journalist, editor, and proofreader. She embraces her gypsy-heart and is following her new free-thinking journey through life. Follow her as she starts over and learns a bunch of life's lessons--some the hard way.
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12 Responses to Polygamy is a touchy subject…

  1. mlbower says:

    Can I hear an AMEN for Sister Collins!

    Or rather a ‘You Go Girl!’

    Like

  2. Cele says:

    Now my question. Dot, I mean you nor your husband ill will.

    If a woman’s husband dies before she does, and she remarries, is sealed to her new husband, does she get both husbands in her celestrial kingdom? Or is there a double standard?

    Oh, right, duh!

    Like

  3. Tovarish says:

    Howdy Ya’ll
    Firstly, let me say thanks for the frank and open dialogue about some of the more sinister aspects LDS doctines and no (I’m not a Mormom) but what I am is man who has an incredibly deep connection with Father. A man who is looking for the true church (if there is one?). So far my quest has been in vain, so I continue to pray fervently to Father that he will gift me the answers I seek. In truth, I think he is answering my prayers because each time I wade through the dogma of the next church-I get a little to the truth by having had removed one more lie from before.
    Sadly, I must admit my heart aches at what I have learned here as I has great hopes for the LDS Church but I fear it’s not the true church. Maybe the Amish?
    So lastly my brothers and sisters may peace and blessing be yours.

    Like

  4. oh Natalie — what a great response!

    Blessings,
    Karla

    Like

  5. Tracy says:

    “In my understanding it was more for the benefit of the members – to receive temple ordinances, safe trip across the country”

    Tell that to the people of the Mountain Meadows Massacre…oh, they were not Mormon, it must be okay then.

    Like

  6. Kane says:

    Polygamy, Asian Native Americans, Book of Breathings, Scriptures in a Hat, Blood Atonement, God Lives on Kolob, Earth isn’t 6k old…… who cares?

    Like

  7. T.W. says:

    Never one to be part of an Amen choir of voices singing the praises of the Almighty (whether it be God or one who blogs), I was a little irritated by your post. You portrayed Dot as being totally off base with the Church’s teachings, when in actuality her version is closer to current LDS doctrine than the LDS doctrines as portrayed in your post. Her non-acceptance acceptance in faith and belief is exactly how many devout and wonderful people deal with the obvious conflicts in their faith.

    I have studied early Mormon history and it isn’t as clear cut as Joseph straying and covering tracks with a revelation. Polygamy and the restoration of all things was an early, early tenet that Joseph Smith held from almost the earliest formations of the Church around 1831. Polygamy wasn’t just about men being able to have lots of women, but it had to do with a spiritual quest towards one-ness with God and a restoration of an Old Testament patriarchy. While you may disagree vehemently with these type of doctrines, to dismiss the religious underpinnings is to undermine your arguments and make you less credible. If anyone wants a great synopisis of early Mormon history as it relates to polygamy, I’d suggest Lawrence Foster’s book Religion and Sexuality.

    The too many women versus men in the Celestial Kingdom is absolutely not a “VERIFIED” teaching of the Mormon church. Verified by whom? The Almighty Ms. Collins? Certainly this is Mormon folk doctrine, but not a current doctrinal belief of the sanitized Hinckley religion Mormonism is today.

    You urge Dot to know the “real story”, but then give her a version of the story that is just as flawed and partisan as hers.

    One last note, anyone who has studied literature and/or mythology understands that Truth can be discovered through fiction. Comparing subjective religious convictions discovered through a cultural mythology and religion to alleged objective evidence of the religion’s falsity is patently unfair. Why can’t someone obtain subjective Truth and understanding of humanity through a great novel, the Bible or even the Book of Mormon? Lighten up on the Believers Natalie — they have something they could teach you, just as you might have something to teach them.

    Like

  8. Geez, TW, when did I claim to be Almighty. Anyone who really knows me knows I don’t think that. I have no problem with you finding my argument “flawed.” But please remember I do not go to them. They come here and post. They give me THEIR opinion, and then I give them mine.

    Like

  9. T.W. says:

    And I gave you mine. I’m appreciative of dialogue because I find it more productive than attack, but that is simply my preference.

    Like

  10. Natalie says:

    I like dialogue, too. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to be to the point. I learned long ago that unless you are VERY plain and clear about your position, naysayers see it as weakness and attack. So I make sure I am clear and plain.

    Like

  11. Stacey Pokorney says:

    Hi, Natalie, love your blog. Came across you on Mormanity, where I have posted before as “Party Crasher.” I am a Protestant Christian, non-denominational. I have been researching Mormonism for 20 years, ever since I dated a Mormon in college. (OOPS, did I just give away my age?) Also found we are both XLDS members.

    I agree with your reply to Dot, and I fear for her scriptural understanding, Christian, Mormon, or otherwise. Jesus himself taught that in Heaven men and women are neither married nor are they given in marriage.

    The one point I would like to make about polygamy is that the Bible is mysteriously silent on the matter. The only mention of it is in the New Testament, where deacons (church leaders) are required to have only one wife. (Sorry, I don’t remember the Bible verse.) There are numerous stories of Jewish spiritual heroes who have mutiple wives, without condemnation (King David, Abraham), however, one could argue that their multiple marriages caused problems not strictly related to the marriages being polygamous per se.

    So, I guess where polygamy is concerned, I usually shrug and say, well, nothing seems to be scripturally wrong with it, and perhaps there are strong social arguments for and against polygamy. My hubby knows better than to even think about it, and I ain;t EVEN interested in taking care of another man, but we do often laugh over “Paint Your Wagon,” a funny movie that addresses this issue.

    Best to all,
    Stacey Pokorney
    Dallas, Texas

    Like

  12. Hellmut says:

    T.W., if one actually reads Genesis, I don’t understand how anyone can take a family where wives have to deploy their maids in sexual power plays to preserve their position in the pecking order as a model.

    There is nothing desirable about Abraham’s or Jacob’s family. I understand that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob lived in different times. So I will give them a break and withhold judgement. But I cannot understand why anyone would want to recreate that dreadful state of affairs.

    Mormonism is not the only charismatic religion where the founder had sex with his acolytes. That’s standard behavior for alpha males. It is not, however, a marker of civilization. On the contrary, it is a sign of corruption and civilizational decay.

    It is no accident that Joseph Smith got killed over polygamy. When power and sex become intertwined too closely then the stakes of politics become too high. Violence is the logical consequence.

    Liberal democracy has been striving to disconnect sex and power. While we are not quite there yet, humanity has been moving in the right direction. To a degree, uncoupling sex from power is one of the reasons why politics in a democracy can afford us the nonviolent change of rulers.

    Joseph Smith undid that progress when he slept with the wives and daughters of his followers. When he married his foster daughters and seized their inheritance, he kicked off the events that would lead to his murder.

    There is nothing divine about polygamy. If there is a God, he would not expect us to marry our foster daughters. Such a God would be a monster authorizing sexual abuse. Attributing Joseph Smith’s sex life to God would be sacrilegeous in its own right.

    Like

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