Will Weenie Rat Face Go Free?

Apparently, one of the victims in the case against Weenie Rat Face, AKA Warren Jeffs, has been successfully silenced by family members, and Arizona’s case against him is now in jeopardy. I will report more when I get it, but this is a sad, sad, day.

And in the name of polygamy, we get THIS email comment.

I think it is interesting the polygomy is being linked with the Mormons. Green and Jeffs are not members of the Mormon church. They were ex-communicated along with all of their other followers and now make their own church which allow polygomy. I know lots of Mormons (close friends and even family), I live in Mormon-ville and not even ONE has more then one wife or was married underage. In fact, if you look a little more into the subject on the LDS website you will find that polygomy is not practiced or encouraged and is considered a sin. If you do this, you will be ex-communicated.

I find it interesting that young Mormons cannot even SPELL polygamy, let alone wrap their minds around the fact that their RELIGION still teaches it as a tenet essential to eternal salvation in the Celestial Kingdom. They don’t PRACTICE it NOW, Chrystina, because it is against the law. If it were not, it WOULD be practiced.

Where do you think the fundamentalists came UP with the idea? Why, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and other early church leaders, of course!

I refer you to the following post, lest I repeat myself a million times.
http://www.nataliercollins.com/weblog/?p=326

Get a clue. Your church believes in polygamy. It might not happen now, but it IS TAUGHT as a tenet. There is a REASON it is associated with Mormons, silly girl. It’s not a blind association. Sheesh.

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About Natalie R. Collins

Natalie has more than 30 years writing, editing, proofreading and design experience. She has written 20 books (and counting), has worked for the Sundance Film Festival, and as an investigative journalist, editor, and proofreader. She embraces her gypsy-heart and is following her new free-thinking journey through life. Follow her as she starts over and learns a bunch of life's lessons--some the hard way.
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25 Responses to Will Weenie Rat Face Go Free?

  1. grotesque says:

    You… so, so sure of yourself… you scare me, Natalie. A lot. I think you’re doing more harm than good here. Do you write like this to seem stronger? I would guess that it points to something else.

    Like

  2. mlbower says:

    I have to say that it is not Natalie who is linking polygamy to Mormons. Most anyone who has heard of the Mormon church has heard it associated with polygamy. It now scares me to know that my maiden name is also the lat name of one of Joseph Smith’s wives, a teen bride. I don’t believe that she is any relation as most of my relatives are rednecks, not Mormons.

    Grotesque, I didn’t realize being a strong, confident woman was a bad thing.

    Like

  3. Cele says:

    Grotesque, strenght is all an illusion on most sides of any arguement…unless you have the truth backing you. In this case, Natalie’s strenght lies in the truth. Truth of both the past, the present, and the future of the Mormon, and it’s offshoot cults. If an arguement is based on an illusion, the strenght of that arguement is as firm as a house of cards. Anyone might say that the truth of the Mormon religion isn’t even as firm as a house of cards, for it is based on far less than truth and even less than that on wisdom.

    Like

  4. Sunshine says:

    Natalie–Thank you for your thoughtful and well written blog!

    I, too, was BIC in SLC, Utah, and I agree with you on most things that you post.

    It’s sad to me that so many fabulous women blindly accept that their church doesn’t believe in polygamy anymore… Read your D&C girls!

    When I “checked out” this issue was one of the big 4 that I couldn’t believe in and required me to exit…

    Like

  5. Tracy says:

    Take it from a never been Mormon, when you think of the Mormon religion, you think polygamy.

    Now, that’s not to say there are those who do not practice polygamy, who live good lives with only one wife, but come on, to say polygamy never exsisted is ignorance on your part. Read your religions text, it’s in there.

    I heard a cop in Utah say if they arrested everyone who practiced polygamy, there wouldn’t be enough jails to hold them all.

    Like

  6. Melissa says:

    People do think of polygamy when they think of the Mormon church. It is a major part of their history and people that are a part of the church admit that. Even as late as 1879 Joseph Smith was saying that plural marriage was essential for exaltation! The famous LDS member Bruce McConkie stated himself “Obviously the holy practice will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millenium.” (Mormon Doctrine pg 578)

    I also think of the sealing ceremony as aomewhat polygamous as well. (If someone can enlighten me on this with intelligent rebuttal, not just “becasue the church says so” then I welcome that.) If a man and woman are sealed for eternity and the woman dies and the man remarries then what happens to his 1st wife? Is he “unsealed” from her so he can remarry? Doesn’t seem fair to her to me that she is floating around eternity, loosing her place in heaven just because she dies. Does he NEVER remarry at all in this life because he is sealed to only her, or does he remarry and be sealed to the 2nd wife despite being sealed to his 1st wife, only to have 2 wives in the next life? Um, I think that is polygamy…..

    Like

  7. kd says:

    Losing a battle is always frustrating. However, releasing Jeffs might actually help in raising awareness and preventing the abuses of polygamy.

    If Mr. Jeff’s goes free, there is likely to be some really nasty battles as he tries to reconsolidate power. Having the turd out in the public where it stinks might do more to show people the evils of the polygamist culture than sweeping the turd under the carpet where it festers and ripens in secret.

    BTW, there is also a chance that making polygamy legal would end up doing a great deal of harm to Mormonism as the power mongers in the hierarchy start going after all the teens in their wards.

    ======

    On Melissa’s statement, I think in the western tradition, the primary concern of the family is the welfare of the kid and not about fantasies of the afterlife. When a parent dies, remarriage helps provide for the kids.

    Like

  8. Melissa says:

    hahah,
    once again, another hot topic!! What I always found so interesting with the whole polygamy thing was how joseph smith, supposedly an inspired man of god, could be so hypocritical. In one breath he is writing this:
    We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    And in the next breathe he is preaching polygamy which was against the law
    Connect the dots children – the “saints” fled not because they were “hated” for no reason, but because they were not “Sustaining the law”
    I would even go a step further and say that Joseph Smith was a womanizing quasi-pedophile. No wonder Emma went nuts! And dont even get me started on good ol’ brother brigham!
    Enjoy!

    Like

  9. Bukko in Australia says:

    The passage you quote was the BEST rationalisation I’ve ever seen by a man who wants to get some on the side. “God told me to! And you better put up with it, Emma, or the Lord saieth he will destroy you. Pow — right to the moon!”

    OK, Smith didn’t say the last bit. It was Jackie Gleason, who was one hell of a better writer. Reminds me why I never read any Mormon holy tracts. They have the WORST prose! They probably blame it on Moroni or someone angelic. You don’t see the archangel Gabriel/Gibreel being so ham-handed when he dictated the Koran to Mohammed. And whilst we’re on the subject, surely you’ve expounded in some post about the Mormon/Muslim polygamy brotherhood…

    Like

  10. I’ve always found it amusing that several of their tenents changed when they became against the law.

    Like

  11. JulieAnn says:

    I am going to attempt to write this withOUT whining. WHY, OH WHY do people like “grotesque” even read this blog? You know what scares me? People who obviously hate something, yet they are drawn to it like convoluted sycophants. Sorry, but it’s just creepy.

    Let me tell you “g”, Natalie writes like this because it’s what’s on her MIND. If you are so disurbed by it, go read The Journal of Discourses or maybe the D&C–hey, maybe even try the original books from which Smith stole the texts–that might be fun. But stop reading this blog. All you do is embarass yourself with your psuedo-righteous, ignorant and obtuse comments.

    There. I’m done.

    Like

  12. Robin says:

    I hope that as a Mormon, I can shed some light on this issue. YES, Latter-day Saints DID practice polygamy up until the 1890’s, when it was then outlawed by the LDS church. (Remember, “Mormon” is an umbrella word that can mean more that one existing church.) And YES, we do believe that the practice of polygamy will resureface after the second comming of Christ. BUT NOT FOR ALL!!!!! There is no definate doctrine on how all of this will work. But polygamy will not be meant for everybody. That is not to say that those who will practice it are better than those who don’t. Some say that because there are more women (and that women generally tend to me more faithful) that there will be some sort of need for polygamy. Again, that is not doctrine. Just a widely held belief. As for temple marriage. If a man is sealed to a woman and she dies, he may then be sealed to another woman without the first sealing being broken. YES that is a form of polygamy and that man will have two wives in the eternities. NO women cannot be sealed twice. ITS WEIRD. I know. I don’t have a good explanation for it. Or even a bad one for that matter. And thirdly, as far as Mormons fleeing the country in the mid 1800s, it was not because we couldn’t do what we wanted. It’s because we were being KILLED. FACT: Up until the 1970’s it was legal in the state of Ohio to shoot a Mormon on sight!!! Sadly, those types of details were left out of the history books. Many Mormons, were slautered by their fellow countrymen. We were chased out of the country. If we didn’t leave, I don’t think there would be many left. I hope this was helpful. I’ll try to check back later if there are any questions.

    Like

  13. Robin says:

    Sorry, I just wanted to make an addition to what I’ve already said. YES I do know what Joseph Smith said about polygamy and how it is necessary to enter the celestial kingdom. However, we can’t ignore a key feature to our religion: MODERN DAY REVELATION. The reason why we continue to have prophets is because the times change and the needs and requirements of the latter-day saints change with them. It sounds like a cop-out, I know. I’m a synical critic myself. But I do believe in it. If there ever comes a time when one of our prophets feels the need to reinstate the polygamy “code,” I’m sure there is a reason that does not apply to my generation of Latter-day Saints. I too am embarassed at the lack of knowledge on the part of young Saints of their own religion. I have been a member for 3.5 years and I already know more about our deep doctine and our ugliest history than most Saints I’ve met that were born into the church. Natalie, I completely understand all of your points concerning the church’s “ensnaring methods” and “spiritual tricks” because I have pondered and continue to ponder those same possibilities. If the church weren’t “true,” I would be really pissed off. 🙂 But that undeniable Holy Spirit that I know I am too scrutinizing to fabricate myself is what keeps me comming back.

    Like

  14. Lindalee Stahlman Volmert says:

    Just a correction for Robin: it was Missouri, not Ohio. And even tho it wasn’t until 1976 (IIRC) that Gov. Bond of MO took Gov. Boggs extermation order off the books, I think if someone had shot a Mormon and tried to get off because of Boggs order, they would have still been tried and found guilty.

    Like

  15. Robin says:

    I would certainly hope so. Thanks for the correction. You’re right.

    Like

  16. Melissa says:

    Robin,
    you get an A+ in verbal diarrhea, but if we wanted to hear mormon apologists we would attend general conference.

    Like

  17. Dot says:

    This is the first time I have come to your webpage – I have seen comments from you on Jeff Lindsay’s site… I just want to say, as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, and yes, in Utah… Polygamy was practiced and may be practiced again…who cares? In my understanding it was more for the benefit of the members – to receive temple ordinances, safe trip across the country, etc. Yes, it was changed about the same time the law changed, we believe in obeying the laws of the land. So what’s the big deal? Yes, there are those who practice polygamy now that are not members or would be excommunicted if they were found practicing it. Also, the thought of polygamy in the celestial world, I believe very firmly it will be in effect. I have a friend who’s mother died when he was 12. His parents were sealed in the temple. His dad remarried again and they had children together…he was also sealed to her. Why would God make him choose which wife he wanted to be with for eternity? He won’t. Why can people not see that’s a blessing?? If I died tomorrow, I would want my husband to remarry and for eternity if he wished. Those who understand doctrine can accept it faithfully, those who do not understand it will reject it.

    Like

  18. Melissa says:

    Dot, if you cant see the short-sightedness and hypocracy of what you profess to be a blessing, than you are a waste of a brain. Who cares? That is exactly the kind of reasoning that makes people like you the least credible source for any realiable information. Whats the big deal? The deal is that people like jospeh smith took advantage of their power by using it for sexual gain. If you cant see that than you are blind. I love how practising “members” always say ‘polygamy will be practised in the celestial kingdom because there are more ‘righteous’ women who will need to be married.’ Call it righteous, call it what you want, the correct word is gullible. Furthermore on the topic of women, i love how the church justifies women not holding the priesthood because their divine calling is to be a mother. One problem with this “equality” – a prostitute on the street corner can have a baby, so how can you compare the supposed “gift” of he priesthood, to the gift of motherhood. Dont get me wrong, i dont want to hold the preisthood, it isnt about feminism, but if you look at the churchs justifications for legitimate questions you will find loop holes big enough for the fat women of relief society to jump through.

    Like

  19. JulieAnn says:

    *sigh*

    If I can muddle through the incoherency of Robin’s posts and the spiritually retarded and blindly compliant post from Dot, I would like to shed a little light, too.

    Robin: polygamy was not ‘outlawed’ by the Mormon Church. It began as a “revelation from God” and ended as a “revelation from God”–interesting that the latter revalation coincided with the law banning polygamy passed by Congress. (*see blacks and the priestood) People in the Church practiced polygamy up until and beyond the time it was declared illegal. This includes Brigham Young. Joseph Smith married women who were not only too young (youngest was 14) but also women who were ALREADY MARRIED TO RITEOUS MEN. This is called polyandry. Also illegal. Now, Robin, if polygamy needed to be practiced because women are more valiant spiritually than men, then why, praytell didn’t Joseph marry old women and widows? Why were ELEVEN of his wives currently married to riteous men? Ask yourself that. And just to top it off, according to Utah census reports, there were almost twice as many men in the Utah territory than women. There was not a man shortage.

    Now, if women are more ‘faithful’, why aren’t they running the show? Ah, because we get to have babies. Interesting. Women are told this so they don’t get a funny feeling in the pit of their stomachs (you know, that feeling you ignored when it bounced around as you heard this nonsense)?

    Now some other interesting facts about the man who began your church.
    — Joseph Smith with his father looked through seer stones for treasures in the earth.
    “Articles of Agreement” [dated 1 November 1825], Daily [Salt Lake City] Tribune, 23 April 1880, in Francis W. Kirkham, A New Witness for Christ in America: The Book of Mormon, 2 vols. (enl. ed.; Salt Lake City: Utah Printing Co., 1947-59), 1:492-94.
    — Joseph Smith stated that he quit his job looking for treasure because it paid only $14 a month.
    Joseph Smith, “Answers to Questions,” Elders’ Journal, 1 (July 1838): 43; Vogel, Early Mormon Documents 1:53.
    –Joseph Smith was given a misdemeanor for his “peep stone looking.”
    –Joseph Smith tried to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon in Canada.
    AND FINALLY
    –Joseph Smith falsely translated the Pearl of Great Price. We have the copy of the papyrus in our scriptures. We have resources to translate this now. It is a common Pagan Burial Right, The Book of Breathings. Joseph Smith plagiarized Genesis in many spots word for word.

    That “Spirit” you feel is felt by anyone who has been conditioned to feel it. Ask any Born Again, follower of Islam and snake charmer. Get out while you still have your own free will.

    And now, Dot. There is nothing to say to you except…WOW. Talk about blind obedience. You really think what happens here will happen THERE? Do you think there are little roads with stake houses and wards on every street corner in heaven, like here? That husbands and wives will be in celestial bliss creating more and more babies for your Earths you create?

    To even assume that God is like us proves that indeed, God was man’s ultimate sacrilege: to create something in your image, rather than accept that there may be something we don’t understand is, in my opinion, the height of arrogance. The One and Only True Church? I shudder to see where your narcissism takes you.

    Holy shitballs, Natalie. That’s all I can say.

    Like

  20. Del says:

    Mormon “prophets” from the beginning, have foisted their own twisted views of “God’s Commandments” on the church membership by couching them as revelations. How many fantastically preposterous and illogical ideas do you have to accept “on faith” before you really question why you are following these self-professed men of God?

    Robin and Dot are like most Testimony-bearing Mormons in that they have bought into the idea that the God of Mormonism is deep and mysterious. The only thing that is deep and mysterious are the mormon prophet’s changing views. Mormons have no standard to compare their faith with. Even the supposedly “most correct book” on the face of the earth, the Book of Mormon,” has had many passages removed or changed. For example, the references to the Lamanites becoming a “white and delightsome” people when they obey the commandments has been removed. Also, the sacred Mormon Temple ceremony has been changed many times (e.g. there is no longer a penalty assigned to the signs and tokens).

    Robin and Dot, I invite you to study and pray about these things to see if they hold up.

    Del

    Like

  21. Pingback: Trapped by the Mormons » Blog Archive » Polygamy is a touchy subject…

  22. summer says:

    I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that once again Joseph was misquoted. Just like in the white and delightsome statement.

    When he was quoted as saying that plural marriage was essential for exaltation, he might have meant essential for excitation?

    No?

    Like

  23. Annie says:

    Tell it All: A Woman’s Life in Polygamy by Fanny Stenhouse w/forward by Harriet Beecher Stowe. It is written in the first person by Mrs. Stenhouse. I know about polygamy A=Z and how it affected the persons involved in it. My great grandfather was a polygamist with three wives. Both great grandparents came across in the Martin Handcart Company and that story in itself is enough to “curl your hair”. BUT polygamy has its own hair raising tale! My grandfather told me exactly how it was growing up in a polygamist family of three wives and many, many children. A blessing? You must be joking! Anything but.

    I would like to share with all of you a quote from Mrs. Stenhouse’s book. She and her husband were serving as Mormon missionaries in England at the time the polygamy revelation was made known to all and this is what her reaction was:

    “What now was to be a woman’s lot among the Mormons? A
    life without hope! Who can express the terrible
    meaning of those words – without hope! Yet so it was.
    Hereafter our hearts were to be daily and hourly
    trampled upon; the most sacred feelings of our sex
    were to be outraged, our affections were to be
    crushed; henceforth we were to be nothing by
    ourselves; without a husband, were were told, we could
    not even enter heaven! But had our trials been
    limited to this life we might have borne them, as many
    a weary soul has done, waiting for the relief of
    death. But death was to bring no hope to us; we were
    told that in the other world polygamy should be the
    only order of marriage, and that without it none could
    be exalted in glory. We were told these things by men
    who we believed were true and holy men of God; and we
    trusted in them.”

    I can only imagine…….

    Like

  24. Robin says:

    It saddens me that no one thinks I know the history of my own religion, that you all think that you’re the first to give me all of the points you’ve all outlined, that you assume that I haven’t had the same questions and suspisions that arise in this very blog, that just because I call myself a “Saint,” that all of you lump me, an individual, into a most narrow category, and that you call my words incorherent diarrhea just because we disagree. I was wrong to think that anyone would be interested in hearing my insignificant opinion. I guess there’s no interest in hearing from any actual Latter-day Saints in this blog. And why should there be? You guys seem to already have every single one of us figured out. I don’t even see the need to contiue this website for that matter. I certainly won’t waste any more time here. I hope that you’ll each catch a glimor of the hipocrasy and narrow-mindedness that exists in your own hearts and words. I’m sorry we couldn’t all discuss our thoughts in a more humane manner, but if your intention was to drive me off your site, then you’ve succeeded.

    High fives to all

    Like

  25. Annie says:

    Robin: I was born into the Church and married in the Logan Temple. I have no idea of your age, but I have the feeling that you must be under forty years old.
    During the next thirty years of your life, do some FAIR research and I know that you will come up with a different conclusion that the one you cite above. Don’t base your opinions or faith upon the revelations of others. Grind away and do the research yourself! Your statement “You guys seem to already have every single one of us figured out.” isn’t true. Post your thoughts for heaven’s sakes! You can’t be afraid of a little disagreement surely. Don’t be easily affronted; you have a perfect right to back up your statements and you should do so. Just my opinion….

    Like

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