Facts? We Don't Need No Stinking Facts….

Hello again Trappees. I regularly astound people, and it just makes me so damn happy. I always wanted to be the kind of person who was astounding.

My friend Tim, who apparently was quite bored and tired of making up Internet acronyms, came to my site, and then pointed out Ben’s comment to me. And of course, I must answer Ben, because he apparently WANTS an answer from the Astounding Natalie.

So, here we go.

Ben VerHoef Says:

August 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm e

I happened to come across this website and I am astounded by the lack of information most of the people who have posted a blog have on the LDS church. To say that only 60 people were killed after the extermination order on the saints is to be ignorant of the facts or incapable of researching. The number of saints killed, raped, assaulted, or left for dead are far more than 60 before, and after the order. And that is not mentioning the untold millions of dollars in property and goods the saints lost to ravenous mobs in and around Missouri. The exact number is too great to document in this type of setting, but it would be smart to do your homework more efficiently before writing false claims and information about a religion. There are several other discrepancies on this site that are too numerous to counter, which is why the mormons don’t get up in arms when they are persecuted or hear horrible things said about them. They won’t waste time trying to correct false rumors or accusations because people will think what they want to think. It is better to try to spread their message of hope and peace to others without “convincing” them as someone wrote, but giving our message peacefully and leaving it up to the individual to pray and decide for his/herself.

Oh, for God’s sake, Ben, do I HAVE to go over this again? You just SAYING it is false doesn’t make it FALSE. Any more than you just SAYING the Mormon Church is TRUE makes it true. Give me some facts, please.

I would like you to back up your facts. Give me PROOF that more than 60 Mormons were killed.

You said:

The exact number is too great to document in this type of setting, but it would be smart to do your homework more efficiently before writing false claims and information about a religion.

HELLO? The exact number is too great to document? Let’s see. 60. Sixty. Siiiiiixty. Nope, not that hard to type. I can even add a 0. 600. Six Hundred. Doesn’t take THAT much space. Want another one? 6000. 600,000. 600,000,000. I CAN DO THAT in very little space. The truth is, YOU CAN’T refute my facts, so you are trying to hide the fact in disparaging comments like “do your homework.” YOU do your homework. Any idiot can see you have no idea what you are talking about.

In addition, please note that the Mormons were not just sitting there, all innocent and knitting and petting kittens, when the nasty Missourians descended upon them.

This was a WAR. The Mormons had been told that Missouri was their promised land, and they very arrogantly set about claiming it. They pretty much DECLARED the war, and it was cemented by Sidney Rigdon, who delivered an oration that set the Missourians on edge, and prepared to fight for their land and their lives.

In fact, Brigham Young said of Rigdon, “Elder Rigdon was the prime cause of our troubles in Missouri by his fourth of July oration.” (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, page 667)

Rigdon’s speech said, in part:

“And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed.”–
Comprehensive History of the Church, vol. 1, page 441

Noted Mormon Historian, B.H. Roberts, said, nearly 50 years later:

“…the deliverance of a very noted ‘Oration’ by Sidney Rigdon at Far West, on the Fourth of July, 1838, in the course of which there was expressed a strong determination to no more submit quietly to mob violence, and acts of pillage. At this distance of time from that occasion, and balancing against the heated utterances of the speaker the subsequent uses made of them to incite the public mind to that series of acts which culminated in the expulsion of the Saints from the state, we say those utterances were untimely, extreme, and unwise. So indeed they were. The speaker seems to have thrown discretion to the winds, and in the fervor of his rhetoric made threats of retaliation on behalf of the Saints.”

Now, I realize that in war, there are two sides. I believe the Mormons were the instigators, and have provided facts to support that claim, and still, I would say to Ben, “sure, there was death, and there was a loss of goods and properties. BOTH WAYS, Ben.”

Talk about a lack of facts. You haven’t provided ONE fact, or one source. I, the Astounding Natalie, have provided many. And can provide more, should you desire.

Ben said:

The exact number is too great to document in this type of setting.

Please. Only because you CAN’T! No one is fooled by your roundabout dismissal of my comments, without fact or foundation. This, of course, was cemented when you encouraged people to JUST PRAY ABOUT IT.

Get a grip. If you want to point out what you claim are lies, you better be prepared to back them up with fact. I’d be happy to listen. Until then, I might be tempted to say to Ben, “GET YOUR LYING ASS OFF MY BLOG.” But I won’t. Because I am the Astounding Natalie.

While I don’t take kindly to being accused of lying, I understand that people have their illusions and many wallow in those illusions, and have no idea how to deal with reality. It makes no sense? Good God, we better pray!

I have no reason to lie. I do, however, have reason to tell it like it is.

And Ben is just proof of that.